Boukensha ni Naritai to Miyako ni Deteitta Musume ga S Rank ni Natteta - Vol. 3 Ch. 13

[Nep]

Poor dad retired at E-rank. Reminds me of those RO days where you happily(?) kill Porings at one relatively safe corner and then someone drops a dead branch.



Except this time, there is no reviving at city.

 

[Kaarme]

Funnily enough, he actually is the Red Ogre. He just didn't realise it himself.

@cryum They aren't some ordinary villagers. She has a job that requires fighting monsters and cut-throats, he used to have that job. It can't be said to be something you do from 9 to 17 and then relax the rest of the day. It's a business where losing one's edge (not edgelord edge) even for a moment is all it takes to die, no matter what time of the day it is or where you are. This much was needed. Besides, it wasn't just a hug. It was clearly an ogre hug.

 

[eviljackspicer]

I think she loves her father....

 

[The_DCG]

@Lohengrin He's everyone with taste's strike zone.

 

[Dreadful]

Awww, I am loving this manga more and more. And yes Red Ogre indeed. O_O

 

[mommunism]

Why are all these people shocked that he's actually strong? This is an incredibly common trope in manga and has been obvious since chapter 1.

Also, this isn't good parenting, for the record. Negative reinforcement is far less effective than positive reinforcement.

 

[kent199]

@mommunism well if he had been too soft, it would only endanger her life. Positive reinforcement can kill you in fantasy world

 

[shanoc5902]

Oof that must habe been painful, but I can see where he was coming from, what she had shown him was guaranteed to get her killed eventually if she wasn't hiding something...

@mommunism He's tried positive reinforcement for her entire life, and it left her making mistakes he could see through and treating a job where she's the first response to the demon Lord like it was some casual hobby she could quit if it was too bothersome, he was wrong in his assessment but her casual approach to things made him think it was tough parenting or dead daughter, because positive reinforcement flat out failed to prepare her properly (as he had been lead to believe)

 

[Jamadhur]

The credit page always got me laughing

 

[mommunism]

@kent199 I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Negative reinforcement *will not lead to desired outcomes* like positive reinforcement will. In other words, if you threaten somebody with a punishment it will either have no effect or even amplify their desire to disobey on average. In a real life situation he could have easily been pushing her to endanger her life. Also, "positive reinforcement" does not mean coddling, it means rewarding good behavior.

 

[subliminal]

you say negative reinforcement is bad but if a dog tries to bite you, you learn not to do what caused it to try and bite you.

 

[degenerateafro]

People are assuming that if he didn't lose his leg that he would still be strong. There is always the possibility that because he lived through losing his leg, he changed his whole outlook on life and became more dedicated to improving himself leading to the strength he has today. Without the motivation of losing his leg he may not have put in the work required to improve.
Also there's the small matter that if he didn't lose his leg, he never would have found and raised Angie so his luck stat is fine; It just works in extremes.

 

[mommunism]

@shanoc5902 First of all, we don't know whether he's tried positive reinforcement. The opposite is implied plenty, he's presented as a very strict father figure during her early childhood. Secondly, she would never in a million years be S tier if she was treating this like a casual hobby. And finally, your argument is bad regardless. You cannot say "I tried x and it didn't work so the professional opinion is wrong." It's not a logical argument, ever. If you had always changed the oil on your car and it suddenly broke down, would you stop changing it? No, because changing the oil has been shown to be more effective than not changing it. In the same way, positive reinforcement has been shown to consistently be better than negative, period.

 

[Kuroageha]

Red Ogre fought a demon lord with a low level party and won, he lost his leg because he had to protect his party if not he would have his foot.

 

[mommunism]

@subliminal It's not me who says it's bad lol, it's the people that study these things. If a dog bites you for trying to sit on your couch, you don't stop sitting on your couch, you just keep the dog away from it (which is equivalent to reinforcing secretive behavior in a parental relationship). You only stop doing meaningless things like scratching between its toes. Negative reinforcement can obviously be less effective while still accomplishing menial shit.

 

[letmebegin]

@mommunism I do not really think it is appropriate to judge his parenting skills with today's standards. He is a sole parent and should not have modern WESTERN society's values and knowledge. If he did, it would be even more magical, than having magic in this world.
And by the way if you say 'on average', it actually means that in some cases it is effective. Therefore you should not be completely sure that you are right on this point. Hope you can see my point.

And his motivation for acting like that is explained and comes from his experience. And I think it is a decent parenting, aside from the fact that if it was an actual medieval world he should have wed her at the age of 14 with decent dowry and she should have become a mother by her current age. And it would be considered good parenting by their standards.

 

[FireCamp]

@mommunism how are you gonna get her to take things seriously ? what kind of reward in this case do you have in mind ? also being strict isn't necessarily "negative reinforcement" i mean sure he was harsh but in hindsight humans are the definitions of sloth, we never try seriously if we don't have to: unless there's something bad that's gonna happen when we fail or we gonna lose something from not trying,
keep in mind that the dude had a broken sense of strength, since on his scale normal monster are as strong as whatever the fuck that shadow thing was, yeah when on a scale, loosing his daughter clearly outweighs looking like a bad parent don't you think ?

 

[icarushector]

@Kuroageha I know right? I feel like we were led to believe that the shadowy shape of the wolf thing that took his leg was like that because of fearful recall. To think it actually was that sorta amorphous thing, The world is a little less safe for having lost this guy at an early stage. Though, if he hadn't the daughter would still be lost in the woods. WHICH IS STILL FISHY AS FUCK.

 

[mommunism]

@letmebegin I'm not judging a fictional character, I'm responding to the people saying it's good parenting who might replicate similar methods some day. Obviously negative reinforcement CAN be effective in niche cases. However, it's a bad idea if the average is bad unless you know exactly what those cases are, which almost nobody does.

@FireCamp You get her to with positive reinforcement..? Duh..? An extremely obvious example would be letting her do something she wants if she wins the fight seriously. Being strict isn't always negative reinforcement, but the example shown was and it seems like his usual training style relies on it heavily to a lesser degree than disowning someone. The sloth thing is the same irrelevant logic that everyone else in this thread seems to love using. If research shows that negative reinforcement does not work YOU CANNOT SAY "humans are lazy unless they get negative reinforcement xd so get shit on." It's a very bad argument. If humans are lazy, positive reinforcement is MORE effective at making them stop being lazy.

 

[thegentelman]

I was hoping he will be stronger than her and then she will need a lot of training to surpass her father .......but it was over in one chapter