Golden Kamuy - Vol. 17 Ch. 165 - Flag Bearer
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@EtanRed
I still feel bad his bro seemed like a real nice guy : / demmit ogata, shooting first Sugimoto and now this.
Ummm, right... He probably was kinda jealous of his brother getting out of the conflict squeaky clean while he had to do the ugly job. Or rather thought it probably wasn't fair? But knowing their father apparently favored him more could have helped.
However didn't Tsurumi just went and told him it wasnt needed to kill him in the end? I still cant figure out why they would want to kill him if he is helping their troops but whatever thats common ground with them by now to me.
However didn't Tsurumi just went and told him it wasnt needed to kill him in the end? I still cant figure out why they would want to kill him if he is helping their troops but whatever thats common ground with them by now to me.
I still feel bad his bro seemed like a real nice guy : / demmit ogata, shooting first Sugimoto and now this.
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@A-tan
The last page though... I wonder what action will this mountain cat do to Asirpa in the future.
I think your first comment already explain it all. But of course there's already a lot of factors that motivated Ogata to do what he's doing. He kills his mother without guilt in hope his father would visit her (and him) only to be abandoned. And now, the other son his father have tell you that "killing is bad"? I think how contrast it is with what Ogata has been through making him pissed and thus that happen...
About why they want to kill Yuusaku. Remember how Tsurumi have "Ainu plan"? I think Yuusaku is in their way so either he's on their side or he's dead.
About why they want to kill Yuusaku. Remember how Tsurumi have "Ainu plan"? I think Yuusaku is in their way so either he's on their side or he's dead.
The last page though... I wonder what action will this mountain cat do to Asirpa in the future.
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After reading this chapter, all I want to do is give Ogata a hug. His character is becoming incredibly complex, I initially liked him due to his cold, calculated nature shown by the natural distance that he keeps from everyone else. So many previous scenes with him separated from the rest of the group and the fact that he always keeps that distance. The only character he doesn't distance himself from is Asirpa, finally saying citatap, always helping out with hunting and protecting her. The fact that they are framed back to back when the Russian sniper attacks says so much, implying trust between the two characters. Add in the fact that he doesn't like what her father did to set her up (initial introduction back after the coal mine with those angry screen tones and likely the fact he was reading lips with what Sugimoto and Wilk were saying).
Deep down he wants someone to love him (not romantically) and my spitball hypothesis is that he wants it to be Asirpa. I think Asirpa is the key to helping all of these characters overcome their PTSD; her presence helps heal Sugimoto and as we've seen, now that they are separated, Sugimoto goes totally off the rails quickly. I think this part of the story is about how Asirpa will now help Ogata regain his humanity and the only way that dynamic can be set up is by pairing them up for the time being. She pretty much set up the entire low tech viks vapor-rub/moxibustion thing for him in the first place and those eyes when he wakes up. . . .
Deep down he wants someone to love him (not romantically) and my spitball hypothesis is that he wants it to be Asirpa. I think Asirpa is the key to helping all of these characters overcome their PTSD; her presence helps heal Sugimoto and as we've seen, now that they are separated, Sugimoto goes totally off the rails quickly. I think this part of the story is about how Asirpa will now help Ogata regain his humanity and the only way that dynamic can be set up is by pairing them up for the time being. She pretty much set up the entire low tech viks vapor-rub/moxibustion thing for him in the first place and those eyes when he wakes up. . . .
His character has been hurting for so long that he doesn't even know that he is hurting anymore. The only way he could survive was to detach himself from everything. After digging to find the edited and improved version of chapter 103 with his mother not even trying to fight to live/ignoring him and his ultimate goal of getting his father to just see his mother; and then how the father states how disgusted he must have been at his mother . . . I wanted to hug him even then.
And yes as we see, this chapter confirms that Tsurumi wanted him to shoot his brother and in chapter 164 he looked a bit uncomfortable talking to Tsurumi about his brother. Ogata with that formal posture, like when has he ever tried to look proper to an authority figure? Was the test with the Russian POW another check from Tsurumi or a check from Ogata to see if his brother had what it took to do the dirty deeds the 7th would embark upon after the end of the war? If that was a test, and he failed, than his death was back on the table.
Yes, you as the reader respect the fact that his brother had compassion for his Ogata and told him that he couldn't be the type of man who could kill with out feeling and it gives the feeling he honestly loved Ogata. But the fact that he could stand on his high horse and state that to maintain his purity required him to not harm anyone but instead inspire others to do the same in some ways could be interpreted as even worse. That makes his brother as hypocritical as their father in my eyes.
Add in the fact that you learned in chapter 139 that Admiral Koito tells Sugimoto that Hanazawa left him a letter around the time of his "suicide". There is no way that was an honest letter stating that his foolishness was absolved due to the purity of his beloved son (again total denial/ignoring his other son) and likely the letter written by perhaps Tsurumi to recognize Yuusaku as a better individual than his father, but again ignoring Ogata, thus allowing Tsurumi to further deaden Ogata to the world. It it is quite clear that Tsurumi manipulates everyone around him to use them to his own gain e.g. Tsukishima, Inkarmat, Tanigaki
I find it very interesting that once he deserts, he holds a grudge for a long time towards Tanigaki b/c he thinks that he killed his comrades, which is so out of character for him. Then when he gets super cruel and emotional to make Tanigaki to beg for his help (during the "Fugitive Tanigaki" chapter) and gets even more upset when Tanigaki implies all he knows is how to kill to solve a problem. I assume Tanigaki's personality is like his brother and likely made him more upset than his usual business like behavior.
The vision of his brother turning around and bleeding/crying while looking disappointed as he's pointing out his humanity and that look of disbelief/shock on Ogata's face was maybe him regaining his humanity or realizing he's human again and perhaps recognizing that finally in Asirpa?
And yes as we see, this chapter confirms that Tsurumi wanted him to shoot his brother and in chapter 164 he looked a bit uncomfortable talking to Tsurumi about his brother. Ogata with that formal posture, like when has he ever tried to look proper to an authority figure? Was the test with the Russian POW another check from Tsurumi or a check from Ogata to see if his brother had what it took to do the dirty deeds the 7th would embark upon after the end of the war? If that was a test, and he failed, than his death was back on the table.
Yes, you as the reader respect the fact that his brother had compassion for his Ogata and told him that he couldn't be the type of man who could kill with out feeling and it gives the feeling he honestly loved Ogata. But the fact that he could stand on his high horse and state that to maintain his purity required him to not harm anyone but instead inspire others to do the same in some ways could be interpreted as even worse. That makes his brother as hypocritical as their father in my eyes.
Add in the fact that you learned in chapter 139 that Admiral Koito tells Sugimoto that Hanazawa left him a letter around the time of his "suicide". There is no way that was an honest letter stating that his foolishness was absolved due to the purity of his beloved son (again total denial/ignoring his other son) and likely the letter written by perhaps Tsurumi to recognize Yuusaku as a better individual than his father, but again ignoring Ogata, thus allowing Tsurumi to further deaden Ogata to the world. It it is quite clear that Tsurumi manipulates everyone around him to use them to his own gain e.g. Tsukishima, Inkarmat, Tanigaki
I find it very interesting that once he deserts, he holds a grudge for a long time towards Tanigaki b/c he thinks that he killed his comrades, which is so out of character for him. Then when he gets super cruel and emotional to make Tanigaki to beg for his help (during the "Fugitive Tanigaki" chapter) and gets even more upset when Tanigaki implies all he knows is how to kill to solve a problem. I assume Tanigaki's personality is like his brother and likely made him more upset than his usual business like behavior.
The vision of his brother turning around and bleeding/crying while looking disappointed as he's pointing out his humanity and that look of disbelief/shock on Ogata's face was maybe him regaining his humanity or realizing he's human again and perhaps recognizing that finally in Asirpa?
DjAlexDubCheck
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@chibivesicle
I'm seriously impressed by the width and scope of your narrative examination
I'm seriously impressed by the width and scope of your narrative examination
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@DjAlexDubCheck
Thanks! This series is really well done and I love how subtle Noda-sensei's characters are.
Thanks! This series is really well done and I love how subtle Noda-sensei's characters are.
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its hypocritical that yuusaku wouldnt kill anyone, but his entire job is to inspire men to kill other men. Same way how asirpa is a pacifist, but people are dying indirectly because of her decisions and goals, like how 700 men died at abashiri.
@chibivesicle I really like your insight.
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I don't understand why everyone seems to like Ogata. He's just a sociopath with daddy issues. Dude killed his own family, has no friends, and takes pleasure in killing people.
Sure, he's an amazing sniper, but in a manga filled with amazingly skilled characters it's really not that big of a deal.
He kills a little girl's father and best friend, and continues on with life as usual with her. Shamelessly going hunting together and even letting her take care of him while he's sick. He's an altogether awful human being and I am dumbfounded that there are people talking about wanting to give him a hug after reading this chapter.
Sure, he's an amazing sniper, but in a manga filled with amazingly skilled characters it's really not that big of a deal.
He kills a little girl's father and best friend, and continues on with life as usual with her. Shamelessly going hunting together and even letting her take care of him while he's sick. He's an altogether awful human being and I am dumbfounded that there are people talking about wanting to give him a hug after reading this chapter.
