Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? - Vol. 7 Ch. 34.1

[phil777]

Y'all are dissecting this manga a bit too much, why can't you just enjoy it for what it is? =/

 

[Andelevion]

I think one thing to be reflecting on is that Kumo-Chan is possibly the least self aware person in the world. She absolutely doesn't consider how she appears and what her actions look like, and she's not even considering her lack of humanity right now? I believe this is supposed to be buildup towards her own revelation that her skills really are corrupting her personality moreso.

She's heavily an "in the moment" kind of character, as we should know by now. And she skins over concerning things quite quickly. She's always been funny and cute, but she's never shown to be nice or kind. I personally like the dissonance between the protagonist we were rooting for and the protagonist that seemingly took a extreme step that we can't reconcile yet.

I believe all your issues will be addressed later, and I was personally quite satisfied with the explanation behind her actions and thought process.

 

[criver]

@sylvacoer What chapter did she show anti-social inclinations in?

@Sternberg
The character development is still missing. We haven't really been shown that the taboo skills indeed affect her psyche. So there's no reason to believe that they do.

@Andelevion The manga and novel are different works. While I do appreciate that you refer to it, I believe all of this background info is simply missing from the manga.

@phil777
Idk, it's pretty enjoyable dissecting manga. It makes for interesting discussions. Dissecting it certainly doesn't get in the way of my enjoyment.

 

[shoker]

We're so close to the real fun shit.
Hyyyyyyyyype.

 

[AbuHajaar]

All this rationalization about her human morality
Spoiler:

Spoiler

when she wasn't even human in the first place, even before the isekai

 

[Kaarme]

@criver

There were no indications that I remember of, that her spider nature affected her way of thinking in any way except for maybe her connection with her spider mother. All her thoughts up to that point have also been consistent with this. And the xp vs human life decision was clearly a calculated decision, so I do not believe that you are correct. She's not acting on instinct.

I'd say her lack of human morals and now the apparent disregard for human lives, or rather treating humans more or less like any other prey, is in itself an indication of a spider nature. She didn't want to kill the humans at first, that was her intelligence speaking, but once she accidentally did, her fighting instincts simply kicked in as if she was fighting against any monsters in the dungeon. The rest is history.

is called lack of integrity.

Lack of human integrity, not lack of giant spider integrity, whatever that might be.

The military has an especially hard time making people kill other people, that has been documented. Plenty of people try not to kill even in a war, bomb carriers specifically dropping bombs not at their designated city target, soldiers trying not to hit the enemy. Read some books/papers on that matter, war doesn't automatically make humans beasts.

Looking at the death tolls of all wars, it works well enough. When veterans are interviewed, they very often simply say they did what they had to do. Even Simo Häyhä said the same. I was mainly trying to refer to fighting and killing other soldiers, who would in turn try to kill you if you didn't kill them first. Killing unarmed civilians in total war is another matter far harder to judge by someone who hasn't experienced war.

Also eating raw meat has nothing to do with whether you're a monster.

It could be said to make you more beastly as typically humans cook/smoke/otherwise prepare meat before eating, except for salt water fish in sushi or some special cases. Many people can't even stomach medium beef (to the grief of chefs). Our spider lady doesn't just cleanly eat the meat, either. She eats like an predatory animal.

 

[criver]

@Kaarme

... is in itself an indication of a spider nature.

That's not how logic works, you've flipped the implication so the necessary condition became the sufficient condition (you can't do that, this is a logical fallacy). For your argument to hold you would need to have been shown her spider instincts taking over. This is clearly not the case, the most plausible explanation until now is that she was simply a latent psycho (the alternative is that you're right and the author didn't show it, in which case it's a plot hole).

... her fighting instincts simply kicked in as if she was fighting against any monsters

Reread the chapter, that is clearly not what happened. If anything the author made sure to emphasize the fact that she wanted the xp.

Lack of human integrity, not lack of giant spider integrity, whatever that might be.

Obviously. Spider integrity makes no sense anyways. It's clear however that her thinking capacity is clearly human, and not that of an arachnid.

Looking at the death tolls of all wars, it works well enough.

I am not saying that people do not kill in wars, I am saying that it's hard to make people kill (even through propaganda and ideological brainwashing). She however managed to kill intentionally, without batting an eye, just because of the prospects of getting xp.

It could be said to make you more beastly as typically humans cook/smoke/otherwise prepare meat before eating

People do not cook meat because they would become beasts otherwise. I find the notion that you'd argue this ridiculous. Whether you eat raw meat has no bearance on your morality.

 

[sylvacoer]

@criver - In the early chapters, she said she didn't have any connections to her classmates, that she preferred to be the silent character in MMORPGs so she wouldn't have to try and talk to other players, and that she and her parents pretty much just existed int he same house. Some of it sounded like personal choice and some of it was likely enforced by others, but she's made pretty clear she doesn't/can't make connections with others.

 

[Fusang]

Spoiler

she never had any humanity to lose in the first place, there's a reason why she reincarnated as a spider while the rest of the classroom reincarnated as humanoids

 

[criver]

@sylvacoer Which would imply she was a typical introvert, not a psychopath. There's nothing that indicated psychopathy, so what's happening looks like poor writing.

@Fusang

Spoiler

Firstly, this is not yet in the manga. Secondly, she surprisingly thinks just like a human outside of her psychopathic tendencies. Now I have not read the novel, so I have no idea idea what kind of magical fairy she is. But what I know is that she acts like a normal human, and inconsistently like a psychopath. Smells like bad writing, but I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

[twincubus]

imo she wasnt that much of a moral compass from the beggining and her sense of ethic might have been warped already, and then, she was put in many situations that couldve warped her already skewed morals.
she had to eat one of her siblings to survive, she has to kill other monster to survive, monsters that are shown to be sentient to some level (they've shown emotions like fear and, in the case of the monkeys, they recognize their species and feel motivated enough to avenge one of their own). she has been put in many situations that couldve been traumatic, like when the humans assaulted her home, being terrorized for a long time by alaba while she tried to hide from it, and all of those times she narrowly escaped death. and on top of all that, there are exterior factors that, at some point, influenced her, like her mother's mind control.
she didnt "lose her humanity" now, she lost any humanity she had the moment she was born as a spider, because trying to live under human standards of morals and ethics would get her killed. i dont think we are at a point where we can judge if shes evil or not because, for now, she is a spider living under spider rules. if she gets to a point where she can live among humans as an equal, then discussing her ethics from a human pov will be productive.

edit: she did feel motivated to kill them due to exp greed tho lmao

 

[criver]

@twincubus
A person can change, but only up to a degree. Certainly every person has dark traits in his character, and every person has the ability to kill others and perform inhumane acts, the question regarding psychopathology is really what are the triggers necessary and what are the psychological effects from doing this. The people serving as guards at concentration camps during WW2 were not only psychos, or sadists, the majority were normal people that were following orders or that felt obliged to do it due to one reason or another. They felt physically and mentally ill from the acts they had to perform and watch (this is documented). The issue here is not only that she killed them, but 1) she intentionally did it with the full knowledge it's only for xp, 2) there was no psychologically serious enough (or at least it was not depicted) trigger that made this happen, 3) she didn't feel anything major about the whole thing. Which leads one to believe that she was a psychopath to begin with, however this disagrees with the (however little) initial depiction we got.

she had to eat one of her siblings to survive

It was a spider. Go and eat a spider, you won't turn into a psycho off off that.

she has to kill other monster to survive, monsters that are shown to be sentient to some level

Hunters kill such animals without turning into mass murderers, so your point doesn't make sense. It's not something that will make you a psycho if you were not one to begin with.

she has been put in many situations that couldve been traumatic, like when the humans assaulted her home, being terrorized for a long time by alaba while she tried to hide from it, and all of those times she narrowly escaped death.

She was clearly motivated by the xp and not some trauma that made her have a change of heart.

and on top of all that, there are exterior factors that, at some point, influenced her, like her mother's mind control.

But we clearly saw what happened at the specific moment of the fight.

she lost any humanity she had the moment she was born as a spider, because trying to live under human standards of morals and ethics would get her killed.

That's also incorrect. She has been shown to think throughout this whole thing as a normal human for the most part. As far as her xp farming the humans goes, it didn't seem like she was in any danger, she clearly had the upper hand and they were trying to flee through teleportation. So no, human moral standards would not have killed her, and if anything she kept to those until she saw the xp she got.

i dont think we are at a point where we can judge if shes evil or not because, for now, she is a spider living under spider rules.

Oh but you can judge that she's being evil just fine. By your logic if you enter a tank, you're a tank and you can live by tanks' rules. Which is nothing short of ridiculous. Her body is different, her mind seems to be very much human.

she did feel motivated to kill them due to exp greed tho lmao

I wonder how you manage to reconcile this fact with the rest of your comment.

 

[Mexicandude]

The chapters are getting shorter and shorter

 

[NazrinMaus]

Self-inserting white knight betas who would let invaders trample on their home BTFO

 

[zato_1one]

For those who think that it doesn't have any foreshadow about why she doesn't have any conscience when killing humans or she doesn't have any change in her psychology prior to this chapter. I'd like to say that it actually has one big spoiler and one big foreshadow in the manga. But you probably don't realise that because it sounds so random.

By the way, I don't think that it will be easy for Kumo to clear the misunderstanding after she accidentally killed those humans (in case that she tried to communicate with them). She can't talk and those humans see her as a real spider monster. She doesn't look cute in their eyes. I don't think that any sane person would try to communicate with a big frightening spider which can easily kills their comrades in one shot.

 

[depzdai]

Tips fedora.

 

[kibrax]

what chapter is this in the noval ? anyone i need this fast pls ^^

 

[10101101010]

Someone spoil me please, what is she?

 

[kilisloe]

@criver
Yeah!!

 

[criver]

@kilisloe I am fairly certain that you're just saying this but would never act upon it, and won't dare utter it publicly without being a random anon on a manga forum. (and hopefully I am right)

@zato_1one
So what would be that spoiler?

I don't think that it will be easy for Kumo to clear the misunderstanding after she accidentally killed those humans

They were fleeing in case you failed to notice, they set up a teleportation spell and everything, but she decided to farm them for xp. It was clear as day what the intention was, and to emphasize this the author even added her muttering xp.