Kusuriya no Hitorigoto - Vol. 8 Ch. 37 - Balsam and Wood Sorrel (Part 1)

[Granitefish]

rec_me_shoujo_isekai I've just taken to blocking the lot of them. it's no longer relevant to the story anymore, especially when the situations are a lot closer to indentured servitude rather than slavery.

 

[DarkDooM]

With honestly no offense to anyone, some people are just incapable of putting their perspective outside of their own, and thus unable consider other angles to the same problem.

Amen

 

[Sayorii-chii]

Chapters that shed light on a character that was presented as a creepy/unpleasant person and changes your perspective almost completely are usually the best chapters.

This manga is really gonna be a classic.

 

[Broken25]

It really amazes me that some people are acting as if this is some complex, gray moral issue

Slavery is evil. Using debt bondage to force women (that you bought when they where kids) into prostitution is really fucking evil.

There is really not a lot of nuance here.

But let's look to a recent non-fictional example:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/27/nigeria-italy-human-trafficking-sex-workers-exploitation-justice

isn't Ivie a fucking disgusting human? And if we admit than she is, what's really the difference between her and Granny? They are doing the same fucking thing!

 

[Rgal]

@Artemi

Abolotionism took a few hundreds if not thousands of years, depending on how long you want to count the history of slaves, to come into existence and you never answered what you would do in my scenario as the son of a slave owner who inherits those slaves.

Release the slaves. Duh. Like @Broken25 said, it's the only moral choice.
Also, like they already mentioned, possibility for releasing slaves was a built-in part of insitute of slavery in almost every society that had an institute of slavery, so your argument is just plain wrong.

So you have to ruin yourself, your wife, your children to a live of poverty and make them social parias, while someone else will probably take the business you now can no longer do with new slaves? Would you really look favourably at such a character?

Right, because all of that is so going to happen. *eyeroll*
You do realise that you can employ non-indentured citizens to work in your business, right? Perhaps even some of the newly released would be content with doing what they already have been doing, but with decent compensation this time. Better yet, work yourself and co-own the business with your coworkers. Your family doesn't need to eat caviar to survive! That's just silly.

 

[valley_pauper]

Mao Mao's mother's price can't have been reduced simply because she lost her virginity, since just last chapter they were talking about Pai Ran who has a healthy sexual appetite and regularly does night services.

Edit: This was in response to several comments about her virginity being her selling point. It was because she got pregnant, not simply because she slept with him, that her price dropped.

 

[Granitefish]

@valley_pauper it wasn't because she lost her virginity, it was because she got pregnant.

 

[valley_pauper]

@Granitefish oh sorry I should have been more clear. That was a thought I came to after reading a lot of the comments here that were saying her losing her virginity was what made her price plummet. I believe you are correct, and that it was the pregnancy that affected the price.

 

[Granitefish]

@valley_pauper must have missed those comments, been trying to help explain what happened to some of the people confused by some of the info in this chapter.

 

[valley_pauper]

@Granitefish no problem! Thanks for trying to explain, I appreciate it!

 

[kami_chan]

and to think I thought this guy was so disgusting...
Mao’s mother is so beautiful and has a serious aura like her daughter’s, too bad they couldn’t get to know each other
incredible chapter, this story only gets better
thank u guys so much for the update *_*

 

[Artemi]

@Rgal But there were also often rules to make sure not too many slaves got released. Not talking about that even once freed, the former slaves often still had certain restrictions and obligations towards their former master. Bancrupting yourself if you suddenly lost most of your workforce and a good part of your fortune would have been an easy to see consequence, because paying normal wages would mean no longer being able to keep competitive and thus no longer able to sell your products, if the market you earn your living in needed slaves as a workforce in the first place.

But well, what would you do about those slaves that refused to be freed by you, because they would have no place to go to and would get hungry as they couldn't earn their living as free people?

 

[nobile]

I went into the comments section trying to see if scanlators would drop the series now that it's being serialised in English... only to be shocked at the fact that some people nowadays don't seem to see slavery as intrinsically wrong WTF

 

[Official229]

@Scrwd o yey, I got your point, nice.

@nobile not dropping it. Also, don't think anybody here is arguing about slavery being okay, we're just simply trying to present the point that the slave owners at the time may not have necessarily been seen as bad guys because slavery was an accepted practice at the time. Everyone knows slavery is bad.

@Rgal

What you said was repeating and rephrasing what Scrwd said, which is "You cannot be evil when your actions during your time and place were not considered evil". That "being bad" somehow depends on when and where and what and who thinks about "being bad". That's pretty unambiguous. And wrong. Very, very wrong.

See, we don't just live in a society. We are a society. Our opinions are partly influenced by those around us, true; but ultimately, it is us who make final decision on wether or not something is worth doing. That is how societal norms form. And some of those norms are bad, because some of us decide that it is worth to do bad things and use sophistry to avoid feeling guilty about it. So yes, you can totally be evil even when everyone around you knows what you did and are totally on board with it.

Simply:

However, we disagree on:
Everyone who did so, was inherently evil.

I disagree with this because I recognize someone being evil when, they do something that is morally bad, even though they know it's bad.
I do not see someone as evil, if they manage to recognize that the things they were doing were bad (if they're made aware of it). The things they did were bad, yes, but they're not inherently evil.

Specifically because of: "I recognize someone being evil when, they do something that is morally bad, even though they know it's bad."
So if a society as a whole knows the things it's doing is wrong, and still goes on with it, it's evil. Yes, I agree, however, you cannot then label everyone who actively participates evil, refer to what @Artemi said a bit earlier. While you can do what you said here, this assumes that they knew that what they were doing was bad.

This exchange just now made me realize we're arguing based on two different assumptions somehow:
Mine: The people of the time were simply taught what they were taught about the social norms, and they gave it no further thought, either because they didn't care, or had other things to worry about (like surviving in general).
Yours: People at the time were able to realize that what they were doing was wrong, but decided to go with it anyway because they either didn't want to admit to themselves that what they were doing was wrong, or because they enjoyed power.

I'm going to have to state this very boldly now, because you missed it the last time: I'm assuming this is what you think, and I also assume you will correct me if I assumed wrong.
I say this because I stated "I think our whole discussion right now comes down to the following:" earlier, and you immediately attacked me.


Under my assumption, the people aren't evil because they'd correct their view on the matter if they were made to realize the error in their ways. The people would eventually come to realize as a collective that what they've been doing was wrong, and that it has to be fixed. If people refused, then you'd able to start thinking about them being evil.

Under your assumption though, and I have to stress this again, this is what I think you're thinking, how did we as a society accept that slavery is bad? Did all the people who knew they were in the wrong one day suddenly decide that slavery is bad and that it has no place in society?


Once again trying to stress this: The only reason we're even able to argue about slavery being bad, is because we as a society realized that slavery is bad. If slavery was still accepted, we'd be the strange ones trying to argue that slavery was horrible. We'd seem strange, but if we managed to convince enough people, the perception that slavery is okay would eventually turn into "slavery is bad". It wouldn't be immediate, but no change in society happens in a day (this whole point is assuming the society is the one I'm assuming above).

 

[Rgal]

@Artemi

Bancrupting yourself if you suddenly lost most of your workforce and a good part of your fortune would have been an easy to see consequence, because paying normal wages would mean no longer being able to keep competitive and thus no longer able to sell your products, if the market you earn your living in needed slaves as a workforce in the first place.

I'm still not buying the bankruptcy argument, but even if not having slaves means not having business, maybe you should… not have a business and get an honest job instead?

But well, what would you do about those slaves that refused to be freed by you, because they would have no place to go to and would get hungry as they couldn't earn their living as free people?

Nonsensical argument. You can't just force someone to have a person as a property. Besides, I already mentioned it before: employing former slaves full-time is a perfectly valid option. They already worked for your hypothetical parent as slaves, that means that they can earn their living as free people. All that's stopping them is your decision to not pay them their salary and pocket the profits their labour generated instead.

 

[simplechild]

This discourse is wildly off topic at this point. Wow.

Courtesans *clap* Are *clap* Not *clap* Slaves. Sex was merely one of the many things they did to entertain their guests. It was considered a respected profession at the time and something you would legitimate dream of becoming. It's unfortunate that the value of a courtesan will quickly evaporate if they get pregnant, but that's the risk they take in exchange for the lavish lifestyle they enjoy.

It's therefore doubly unfortunate that Rakan didnt even think to consider the consequences of getting Feng Shen pregnant.

 

[asfhoiasfjoiasfjpi]

that ties everything together perfectly
fuuuuuuck

 

[afofafaj]

Now I'm crying (even though I knew)

 

[Reademup]

thanks for the info that their is an official English adaption!!

 

[Official229]

@simplechild also throwback to this I said earlier:
I think no matter what position you all take on what is evil, and what isn't evil, you can all agree that what happened to Rakan & family was pretty fucked, and it happened not because one party was evil, but because of a lot of things going wrong at the same time + the norms of that time.
Rakan didn't think what his actions would have resulted in, and the consequences with them, but that's probably because he's a bit on the dumb side (to put it lightly).
As for the granny, I'm not sure whether this was mentioned yet, but the reason Mao Mao's mother was forced to sell herself (that or starve to death), wasn't because she wasn't getting any more customers, but because a huge famine struck during the time Rakan was sent away to war (and famine was always accompanied by famine in ancient times. You can also see it by the bad state the building was in on page 21 when he returned). The granny probably wouldn't have cared too much if it wasn't for this famine (except for the loss of revenue), since losing just one of multiple sources of income wouldn't bring down her business. She would have just probably charged Rakan some extra money when he came back to redeem her.
The the only people you can label as evil in this whole scenario would be Rakan's family, since as far as I can remember the web novel (and this should probably be more or less the same for the light novel),

Spoiler

the head of the family opposed Rakan taking in Mao Mao's mother as a wife, and actively tried to separate them by sending Rakan away, and then intercepting letters from the establishment asking about Rakan's situation and when he'd come to redeem her.