Seirei-tachi no Rakuen to Risou no Isekai Seikatsu - Vol. 1 Ch. 4
- Thread starter MangaDex
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One word: pressure.
Have fun, MC.
Have fun, MC.
@forecast
Yes, saltwater is more dense than freshwater. That's exactly why you are allowed to dig for freshwater. Because freshwater will rise to the top which you access earlier than saltwater. I don't know why you're trying to argue against this, what you're saying is just flat out demonstrably wrong. Humanity has done this for thousands of years and still do. Saltwater inundation/intrusion is a serious issue to face if you pump too much or too fast, but it's not a problem a single person or a small society to worry about because saltwater is more dense.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_intrusion#/media/File:Saltwater_Intrusion.gif
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-sea-honolulu-waikiki-vulnerable-groundwater.html
http://www.groundwater.com.au/willunga/5
Cups for hours? Mind numbing desalination? Ability to keep up fire? These are random factors you're asserting. It's neither based on situation presented nor the capabilities. There's also numerous of ways to desalinate. He could make a solar well/still (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_still) since he digs so well and we know it's quite sunny. But it doesn't matter. As I've accepted your earlier proposal that he might simply not know how. He hasn't demonstrated otherwise. Whereas he has demonstrated he knows he can dig for water.
Just store the dirt that falls on him? Why not just store the entire land away and create a gigantic valley? Problem solved, right? You can't dig dry dirt deep without support because you'll have to dig in a V shape. The landmass you need to remove is too large. If he really has infinite energy to dig everything, store everything, and virtually have all the tools, the plethora of options he has is something that really nullifies any discussion.
Yes, saltwater is more dense than freshwater. That's exactly why you are allowed to dig for freshwater. Because freshwater will rise to the top which you access earlier than saltwater. I don't know why you're trying to argue against this, what you're saying is just flat out demonstrably wrong. Humanity has done this for thousands of years and still do. Saltwater inundation/intrusion is a serious issue to face if you pump too much or too fast, but it's not a problem a single person or a small society to worry about because saltwater is more dense.
See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltwater_intrusion#/media/File:Saltwater_Intrusion.gif
https://phys.org/news/2017-03-sea-honolulu-waikiki-vulnerable-groundwater.html
http://www.groundwater.com.au/willunga/5
Cups for hours? Mind numbing desalination? Ability to keep up fire? These are random factors you're asserting. It's neither based on situation presented nor the capabilities. There's also numerous of ways to desalinate. He could make a solar well/still (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_still) since he digs so well and we know it's quite sunny. But it doesn't matter. As I've accepted your earlier proposal that he might simply not know how. He hasn't demonstrated otherwise. Whereas he has demonstrated he knows he can dig for water.
Just store the dirt that falls on him? Why not just store the entire land away and create a gigantic valley? Problem solved, right? You can't dig dry dirt deep without support because you'll have to dig in a V shape. The landmass you need to remove is too large. If he really has infinite energy to dig everything, store everything, and virtually have all the tools, the plethora of options he has is something that really nullifies any discussion.
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@Vaqvbu1a
Cups for hours = boiling a litre of seawater would only produce so much of freshwater when desalinated it is not random since the conversion of seawater to freshwater is too little. He has no tools to catch the steam so he would use his jacket or shirt, squeezing it would only yield a couple of cups and even have some moisture taken away because of evaporation.(natural or the heat at the beach). Jacket because he doesn't have any tools that can catch steam from his cheat and he only has snacks in his trolley. he also needs to make the pan he needs to boil smaller than the jacket to make the jacket catch the steam.
Mind numbing = him using magic as fuel to boil the water. Imagine holding a candle flame under that shovel for hours waiting for it to boil. It is ember not flame. Well like I said if he can't keep up the magic for that long and opted for using twigs we can throw mind numbing out. However the same thing still presents itself that the cost:reward ratio for desalination is bad.
ability to keep up fire = if he uses magic then this is his magic power which will lower as he uses it and according to all genres that uses magic power will recover overtime by resting.
if he uses sticks then this is equal to the sticks he needs to fuel long term boiling. He needs something to fuel desalination and this is a fact.
What he wants is to develop the land and he doesn't only need water. He will soon need to start the developing which equals to fields. where will he get the seeds? ,don't care since we are talking about water for now, BUT he already declared land development since chapter 1 and this is a fact.
Now assuming that he dug at the beach for a well and used that as water source. He can't make a field at the beach so he needs to travel further to actually make it. Fields are good but he also needs trees(if a tree grows it would give him constant food with less effort than a field also use the wood to build stuff). The amount of water needed for that is massive. It is more ideal if he can find water more inland than the beach.
I have not argued about digging dirt straight down without needing support. I only agreed that If the walls does collapse his idea of using the shovel as a shield and storing the fallen dirt in his inventory as plausible. Also he can only store what he touches(ch1) and I don't think he can store a section of a whole. If he could take a section of a whole then yes your gigantic valley solution would be great. I also don't think his energy is infinite since he does get tired as shown by how he collapse when travelling(ch2).
Cups for hours = boiling a litre of seawater would only produce so much of freshwater when desalinated it is not random since the conversion of seawater to freshwater is too little. He has no tools to catch the steam so he would use his jacket or shirt, squeezing it would only yield a couple of cups and even have some moisture taken away because of evaporation.(natural or the heat at the beach). Jacket because he doesn't have any tools that can catch steam from his cheat and he only has snacks in his trolley. he also needs to make the pan he needs to boil smaller than the jacket to make the jacket catch the steam.
Mind numbing = him using magic as fuel to boil the water. Imagine holding a candle flame under that shovel for hours waiting for it to boil. It is ember not flame. Well like I said if he can't keep up the magic for that long and opted for using twigs we can throw mind numbing out. However the same thing still presents itself that the cost:reward ratio for desalination is bad.
ability to keep up fire = if he uses magic then this is his magic power which will lower as he uses it and according to all genres that uses magic power will recover overtime by resting.
if he uses sticks then this is equal to the sticks he needs to fuel long term boiling. He needs something to fuel desalination and this is a fact.
What he wants is to develop the land and he doesn't only need water. He will soon need to start the developing which equals to fields. where will he get the seeds? ,don't care since we are talking about water for now, BUT he already declared land development since chapter 1 and this is a fact.
Now assuming that he dug at the beach for a well and used that as water source. He can't make a field at the beach so he needs to travel further to actually make it. Fields are good but he also needs trees(if a tree grows it would give him constant food with less effort than a field also use the wood to build stuff). The amount of water needed for that is massive. It is more ideal if he can find water more inland than the beach.
I have not argued about digging dirt straight down without needing support. I only agreed that If the walls does collapse his idea of using the shovel as a shield and storing the fallen dirt in his inventory as plausible. Also he can only store what he touches(ch1) and I don't think he can store a section of a whole. If he could take a section of a whole then yes your gigantic valley solution would be great. I also don't think his energy is infinite since he does get tired as shown by how he collapse when travelling(ch2).
@forecast
Now we're on about how we can't make fields along the coastlines? Are you keep going to say things we can easily demonstrate to be untrue? We can confirm that to be untrue just by looking at google earth and checking out the coastlines... I just checked and there are many farms. You think you can make fields better on dried up land that he had to dig like 100m to reach ground water? lol. Look, humanity has always built larger settlements near large bodies of water, both fresh and salt, since forever because it's a more efficient environment for humans to live... But okay. Whatever. If you were stuck in his position, go ahead take your chances on dried up inland that spirit told us was inhabitable. I'll take my chances near coasts.
Now we're on about how we can't make fields along the coastlines? Are you keep going to say things we can easily demonstrate to be untrue? We can confirm that to be untrue just by looking at google earth and checking out the coastlines... I just checked and there are many farms. You think you can make fields better on dried up land that he had to dig like 100m to reach ground water? lol. Look, humanity has always built larger settlements near large bodies of water, both fresh and salt, since forever because it's a more efficient environment for humans to live... But okay. Whatever. If you were stuck in his position, go ahead take your chances on dried up inland that spirit told us was inhabitable. I'll take my chances near coasts.
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@Vaqvbu1a
He is japanese, when I say make fields he will make rice. 100% of their novels try to find rice or make rice grow in the other world. Saltwater and rice aren't really a good match hence me saying he can't make it near the ocean. I never said anything about humans not being able to live near bodies of water. I am saying in his circumstances he has a better option in taking a chance on a former water hole than trying to desalinate water in a coastline(your first point). Him digging down(disregarding structure because all of us and the mc admits it is dangerous) in a former waterhole will yield water for him that can sustain him with a better effort:reward ratio considering his goal of developing the land.
The spirit never said anything about the former wetlands being inhabitable, she only said there is no certainty if water will come out.
I never also said he can't live near the coast, I am only talking about water.
Where the heck did you pull out 100m from?
He can still fish in the coast for food(granted he can find a shallow spot that wouldn't bring sea monsters).
He is japanese, when I say make fields he will make rice. 100% of their novels try to find rice or make rice grow in the other world. Saltwater and rice aren't really a good match hence me saying he can't make it near the ocean. I never said anything about humans not being able to live near bodies of water. I am saying in his circumstances he has a better option in taking a chance on a former water hole than trying to desalinate water in a coastline(your first point). Him digging down(disregarding structure because all of us and the mc admits it is dangerous) in a former waterhole will yield water for him that can sustain him with a better effort:reward ratio considering his goal of developing the land.
The spirit never said anything about the former wetlands being inhabitable, she only said there is no certainty if water will come out.
I never also said he can't live near the coast, I am only talking about water.
Where the heck did you pull out 100m from?
He can still fish in the coast for food(granted he can find a shallow spot that wouldn't bring sea monsters).
@forecast
Really...?
Really...?
Why are you still bringing up saltwater? I already proved to you that he'll pull up freshwater with three different sources as evidence. Saltwater and any land crop isn't a good match at all!
That you did not. I never implied you said that either. But you raised the point of efficiency and effort to reward ratios. But historically, humanity has shown it's more efficient to live along the coast.
I'm pretty sure my point was that water is more accessible by the coast. This logic follows because the goal is to get water, not how to get water. And it's attainable by either desalination or by digging. Methodology is not the point. If he wants to make a giant rain catcher with his giant shovel, it really doesn't matter as long as he gets water.
I'm not arguing that it's merely dangerous. I'm arguing it's physically not possible to achieve, assuming gravity and friction works the same in this fictional world.
But we already know that turned out to be untrue. I proved digging by the coast is easier because water table depth is guaranteed, with graphs might I add. Whereas this former wetlands is not guaranteed, as seen in chapter after him digging so deep. Therefore, effort to reward ratio is proven to be easier by the sea.
Spirit said it's a wasteland (ch1). Wasteland, meaning desert or barren land (source: wikipedia), is considered inhabitable for humans. That's why we call it wasteland. And that the lands were destroyed (also ch1).
Rough estimation from drawing. It's specificity is not important. Point is that it's deep.
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@Vaqvbu1a
Really -_-
Your three(only two) sources are desalination, and the underground water near the coast. I disapprove of desalination because of the effort:reward ratio being too small. So that leaves the underground water. I talked about saltwater because the air near the coastline carries it. Even if he uses freshwater to water the plants with it being at the coastline the air will still bring a certain amount of salt to the plants.
The efficiency:reward ratio I am talking about is the MC desalinating water. NEVER have I said humans. In HIS circumstances and the amount of what is shown in the manga he can't make a stable desalination of saltwater to support himself while developing the land. plus that and his lack of tools and/or knowledge to build what he needs.
I'll leave your first point alone since it is your statement. :)
well he did it in the manga so it is possible in that world. Also we don't know the sizes of the planets to assume gravity in that world. The only shown thing is that he dug deep and nothing fell. If it did work like in the real world then it would have collapse when he dug least around twice his height so not much danger for him there.(Since he can just use that idea he has with the shovel shield).
You can't prove the manga world with graphs from real life. In that sandy beach he would need to find the nearest solid land first and we don't know the topography of the place. We can't prove it in the drawing since it is not detailed enough. Ok lets take a step back and assume he doesn't know any of the stuff we are talking about. It would make sense that he went to the wetlands. Is he retarded for not knowing that? NO, because a city otaku with all that convenience doesn't need that knowledge.
Wasteland is not considered inhabitable. Inhabitable is a place where you can't live in like the moon or underwater. Wasteland is more like nothing lives there anymore or if there is something that lives there it is the extreme minority like cactus in the desert. Water is can be found even if it is a wasteland.
The 100m is just my curiosity since regardless we won't know which place has a closer freshwater unless he digs at the coastline for comparison.
Really -_-
Your three(only two) sources are desalination, and the underground water near the coast. I disapprove of desalination because of the effort:reward ratio being too small. So that leaves the underground water. I talked about saltwater because the air near the coastline carries it. Even if he uses freshwater to water the plants with it being at the coastline the air will still bring a certain amount of salt to the plants.
The efficiency:reward ratio I am talking about is the MC desalinating water. NEVER have I said humans. In HIS circumstances and the amount of what is shown in the manga he can't make a stable desalination of saltwater to support himself while developing the land. plus that and his lack of tools and/or knowledge to build what he needs.
I'll leave your first point alone since it is your statement. :)
well he did it in the manga so it is possible in that world. Also we don't know the sizes of the planets to assume gravity in that world. The only shown thing is that he dug deep and nothing fell. If it did work like in the real world then it would have collapse when he dug least around twice his height so not much danger for him there.(Since he can just use that idea he has with the shovel shield).
You can't prove the manga world with graphs from real life. In that sandy beach he would need to find the nearest solid land first and we don't know the topography of the place. We can't prove it in the drawing since it is not detailed enough. Ok lets take a step back and assume he doesn't know any of the stuff we are talking about. It would make sense that he went to the wetlands. Is he retarded for not knowing that? NO, because a city otaku with all that convenience doesn't need that knowledge.
Wasteland is not considered inhabitable. Inhabitable is a place where you can't live in like the moon or underwater. Wasteland is more like nothing lives there anymore or if there is something that lives there it is the extreme minority like cactus in the desert. Water is can be found even if it is a wasteland.
The 100m is just my curiosity since regardless we won't know which place has a closer freshwater unless he digs at the coastline for comparison.
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that water squirt what the hell
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MC should have played Minecraft.
He would have finished his underground base in 1 chapter.
He would have finished his underground base in 1 chapter.
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