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There are few typos in CH 13
p.14 "despeicable"
p.32 "you" in panel 3 should be "your"
p.34 "ho damn"
p.14 "despeicable"
p.32 "you" in panel 3 should be "your"
p.34 "ho damn"
She Likes Homos, Not Me - Vol. 3 Ch. 13
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
My overall sentence about this story is: “baby steps, baby steps”
Japan has always been a country where these topics aren’t discussed and people are too comfortable to pay attention to issues that does not concern to their situation, and this is for everything not only sexual orientation. The genre of bl was born and still is for girls fantasy of homosexuality for their, no, our, as I’m a female as well, our reading pleasure, ignoring reality.
I can not be sure if the novel was able to convey it’s intended messages, or if there was such intention instead of glossing over it like the manga. It’s honestly messy, as is life, albeit it shouldn’t be normalizing it when it does not address how unhealthy, toxic or abusive some of the relationships it presented can be, and are, in the story. Maybe I’d still praise it, even with it’s flaws.
Jun’s growth left me without words, all his struggles and acceptance of himself, to confront everyone and himself against his choice, all of it. And then there’s Miura, who was the second most important character of the story.
...
She changes nothing besides knowing gay people may be around her walking like normal people. Honestly, at the chapter were she makes the big scene should have been her closure, her understanding and comprehending all that happened until that point, and moving on. That’s what I thought, her asking for a last kiss of her lover. But nah, til the end she remained the same. The scene of they talking, which was implied to have been one of the reasons of the show she put on at school, as Jun hadn’t cared to know her, should have been right after it, right down to Jun being dumped by her. One of the few things the story didn’t shy to address as it is, cheating is bad. I was very impressed. /s
Any other real life person fujoshi, share your thoughts? Though I’d hate the thought of addressing myself as one. Both because of the meaning of the name, rotten girl, and because theres really teenagers like Miura, who only care to look at the genre meaninglessly, as the meaning of yaoi has this exact connotation, and when facing similar situations as her may behave like so, which is my main issue with the story. Just like Jun grew, Miura should have grown just as much. Sigh.
Japan has always been a country where these topics aren’t discussed and people are too comfortable to pay attention to issues that does not concern to their situation, and this is for everything not only sexual orientation. The genre of bl was born and still is for girls fantasy of homosexuality for their, no, our, as I’m a female as well, our reading pleasure, ignoring reality.
I can not be sure if the novel was able to convey it’s intended messages, or if there was such intention instead of glossing over it like the manga. It’s honestly messy, as is life, albeit it shouldn’t be normalizing it when it does not address how unhealthy, toxic or abusive some of the relationships it presented can be, and are, in the story. Maybe I’d still praise it, even with it’s flaws.
Jun’s growth left me without words, all his struggles and acceptance of himself, to confront everyone and himself against his choice, all of it. And then there’s Miura, who was the second most important character of the story.
...
She changes nothing besides knowing gay people may be around her walking like normal people. Honestly, at the chapter were she makes the big scene should have been her closure, her understanding and comprehending all that happened until that point, and moving on. That’s what I thought, her asking for a last kiss of her lover. But nah, til the end she remained the same. The scene of they talking, which was implied to have been one of the reasons of the show she put on at school, as Jun hadn’t cared to know her, should have been right after it, right down to Jun being dumped by her. One of the few things the story didn’t shy to address as it is, cheating is bad. I was very impressed. /s
Any other real life person fujoshi, share your thoughts? Though I’d hate the thought of addressing myself as one. Both because of the meaning of the name, rotten girl, and because theres really teenagers like Miura, who only care to look at the genre meaninglessly, as the meaning of yaoi has this exact connotation, and when facing similar situations as her may behave like so, which is my main issue with the story. Just like Jun grew, Miura should have grown just as much. Sigh.
Yabaibunni
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@Makecake
I recommend reading the sequel; it's not only about Jun. Actually, the first part is Jun's behavior AFTER this chapter is told from a third POV from another gay man, Akira. A kid from the school he transferred to. Other chapter sections under a song in the "playlist" are about other characters and their POVs. I.e Miura, Ono, Mr.Fahrenheit seemingly leading up to his suicide, etc.
Chapter 10 was better presented in the novel. Ono thought he had to push Jun to comfort Miura because she was there trying to clear his name. She never was outing him, he was ALREADY OUTED by himself. Before he jumped he said "It's because I was born like THIS." So everyone in the school knew he was gay from his own mouth, though there were probably some that thought it was simply rumor the further along the chain it went. Nevertheless, Miura wanted to have them understand his troubles because Jun was neither confirming nor denying him leaving to Osaka. She thought this was her final chance to do something for him. Then, afterwards, she planned to break up with him. But since Ono forced him on the stage, breaking him or him not kissing her when the audience expected it, probably would've destroy all of what she tried to do for him on stage. That's why she called it a "problem" and Jun an "idiot" for not realizing the solution. They were both forced.
As for homosexual and homo, i mistranslated chapter 1 and made them say "gay" sometimes. In actuality, they said "ホモ" which directly translated is "Homo". The whole series uses this exclusively unless the person Jun is talking to is another LGBTQ member, such as Makoto.
Also, the author is a homosexual male. He has a twitter but doesn't post much "personal" stuff beyond like his daily activities.
I recommend reading the sequel; it's not only about Jun. Actually, the first part is Jun's behavior AFTER this chapter is told from a third POV from another gay man, Akira. A kid from the school he transferred to. Other chapter sections under a song in the "playlist" are about other characters and their POVs. I.e Miura, Ono, Mr.Fahrenheit seemingly leading up to his suicide, etc.
Chapter 10 was better presented in the novel. Ono thought he had to push Jun to comfort Miura because she was there trying to clear his name. She never was outing him, he was ALREADY OUTED by himself. Before he jumped he said "It's because I was born like THIS." So everyone in the school knew he was gay from his own mouth, though there were probably some that thought it was simply rumor the further along the chain it went. Nevertheless, Miura wanted to have them understand his troubles because Jun was neither confirming nor denying him leaving to Osaka. She thought this was her final chance to do something for him. Then, afterwards, she planned to break up with him. But since Ono forced him on the stage, breaking him or him not kissing her when the audience expected it, probably would've destroy all of what she tried to do for him on stage. That's why she called it a "problem" and Jun an "idiot" for not realizing the solution. They were both forced.
As for homosexual and homo, i mistranslated chapter 1 and made them say "gay" sometimes. In actuality, they said "ホモ" which directly translated is "Homo". The whole series uses this exclusively unless the person Jun is talking to is another LGBTQ member, such as Makoto.
Also, the author is a homosexual male. He has a twitter but doesn't post much "personal" stuff beyond like his daily activities.
Yabaibunni
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@gwkimmy
The sequel does not focus on either Miura, Jun, or any other. The author plans to expand on every character or the new characters he introduces. This is done through chapters under a song in the "playlists". Miura's I believe in in track 2,"Fat Bottom Girls"...It really should be tits, aha. But from what I read in a review,
The sequel does not focus on either Miura, Jun, or any other. The author plans to expand on every character or the new characters he introduces. This is done through chapters under a song in the "playlists". Miura's I believe in in track 2,"Fat Bottom Girls"...It really should be tits, aha. But from what I read in a review,
Miura is actually depressed with her life right now and tries to find meaning now that Jun is gone. Meanwhile, Jun, still recovering from his loss of Miura somewhat, has moved on with a new potential relationship—exploring his homosexuality openly.
Yabaibunni
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Yabaibunni
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@zokoi19 If you're talking about my next series, it's a girlxgirl love. I don't do exclusively boyxboy, or just LGBTQ stuff in general. I do whatever has a meaningful message or is unique! I recommend you check this series out once chapter 1 is published, as it's from an amazing author that did After Hours. You can read it on Viz!
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To be honest, this was a bit of an eye opener for me. I like to believe this was able to open up on subjects that aren’t usually discussed mainly because they’re considered “taboo“ but it doesn’t mean they don’t occur or can’t occur. Anyway, I’ve been definitely touched by Jun’s growth. :) Thanks for translating the ‘bonus track’ and for working on this series as whole! It was a good read. 
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thank you for all your hard work on this series!
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there are people who don't like the ending? I think it's nice! I enjoyed this manga. thanks for translating it 
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@megagen
I’m gonna clear one thing up. When I wrote what I said I didn’t mean it in the way you’re interpreting it. I don’t admire Jun as a character. I’ve listed my grievances with him and his viewpoints and treatment of others in a previous comment thread. I said I could probably write a twenty page essay about my gripes with this manga and its characters and I meant it, but with all the already repeated discourse about jun it felt unnecessary to write another 1k when it would just be me echoing previously made points (I actually laughed at him when he said he’d make a blog to give advice because this boy has consistently made the worst decisions EVER in every situation he’s been involved in and is the last person to be giving advice to other isolated minors). I just find his ending as satisfactory because he’s 1) out of that relationship with makoto and 2) realizes that maybe he didn’t have the healthiest mindset. There’s a lot wrong with him, he has a plethora of flaws, but I think this ending suits him from the way the author was setting up his end.
When I said people would rather focus on the straight fujioshi girl I mean that straight audiences who would interact with this story would only interact with it once they saw themselves being involved in it. If the author decided to minimize Miura’s role, or even remove that plotline with her being a fujioshi//just remove her from the story, the target audience would become incredibly niche.
Try selling a story about a gay minor who treats everyone around him like shit, and is violently internally homophobic. Also, he’s dating a pedophile (a pedophile that actually uses him to mask his sexual attraction to his son). Also, his best friend is a fourteen-year-old(?) who dies of AIDS and also was in a pedophilic relationship. And the main character doesn’t really grow, he just keeps on making terrible decisions. And people actually try to commit suicide because of their sexual orientation (one succeeds). And this story isn’t amazingly compellingly written (full of tonal inconstancies and unlikable characters and half-finished arcs etc). It’d be…. incredibly difficult.
Like, adding Miura, increases this stories marketability. It got picked up by an actual publisher. It became famous. Then it got a live action tv series, and a manga adaption! There’s this type of cult like following after it despite all it’s flaws! That is really successful and popular! But why? Someone once said that Miura was like a fujioshi self-insert, so maybe that’s what draws you in. A story about a straight fujioshi and a gay man in a relationship? Sounds a lot more appealing and interesting for a person not heavily involved in the LGBTQA+ scene than a story about homophobia and societal norms. Not many people who aren’t queer would pick up this book if not for the gimmick of Miura and Jun’s relationship, and that means that they picked up this story because Miura is in it. Miura who is straight, and cute, and honest, and likable, and a fujoshi. Miura who gets cheated on and whose relationship with Jun overshadows much of the queer content and development of the queer characters. Miura, our straight heroine of this odd relationship dynamic who tragically fell in love with a gay man! Miura, who has had no actual experience with the gay community asides from BL and who also learns and acknowledges that gay people exist! She’s just incredibly sympathetic to a straight audience, and is the reason why this series picked up as much popularity/interest as it does.
I’ll just say this. The story without Miura would still be bad. It would still be problematic, still have the same inconsistencies, and still be a tough read. But that story wouldn’t exist as a manga or a live action or maybe even as an actual published novel, because its dramatized queer content does not appeal to a broad audience the same way that the story of a straight fujioshi would instead.
I’m gonna clear one thing up. When I wrote what I said I didn’t mean it in the way you’re interpreting it. I don’t admire Jun as a character. I’ve listed my grievances with him and his viewpoints and treatment of others in a previous comment thread. I said I could probably write a twenty page essay about my gripes with this manga and its characters and I meant it, but with all the already repeated discourse about jun it felt unnecessary to write another 1k when it would just be me echoing previously made points (I actually laughed at him when he said he’d make a blog to give advice because this boy has consistently made the worst decisions EVER in every situation he’s been involved in and is the last person to be giving advice to other isolated minors). I just find his ending as satisfactory because he’s 1) out of that relationship with makoto and 2) realizes that maybe he didn’t have the healthiest mindset. There’s a lot wrong with him, he has a plethora of flaws, but I think this ending suits him from the way the author was setting up his end.
When I said people would rather focus on the straight fujioshi girl I mean that straight audiences who would interact with this story would only interact with it once they saw themselves being involved in it. If the author decided to minimize Miura’s role, or even remove that plotline with her being a fujioshi//just remove her from the story, the target audience would become incredibly niche.
Try selling a story about a gay minor who treats everyone around him like shit, and is violently internally homophobic. Also, he’s dating a pedophile (a pedophile that actually uses him to mask his sexual attraction to his son). Also, his best friend is a fourteen-year-old(?) who dies of AIDS and also was in a pedophilic relationship. And the main character doesn’t really grow, he just keeps on making terrible decisions. And people actually try to commit suicide because of their sexual orientation (one succeeds). And this story isn’t amazingly compellingly written (full of tonal inconstancies and unlikable characters and half-finished arcs etc). It’d be…. incredibly difficult.
Like, adding Miura, increases this stories marketability. It got picked up by an actual publisher. It became famous. Then it got a live action tv series, and a manga adaption! There’s this type of cult like following after it despite all it’s flaws! That is really successful and popular! But why? Someone once said that Miura was like a fujioshi self-insert, so maybe that’s what draws you in. A story about a straight fujioshi and a gay man in a relationship? Sounds a lot more appealing and interesting for a person not heavily involved in the LGBTQA+ scene than a story about homophobia and societal norms. Not many people who aren’t queer would pick up this book if not for the gimmick of Miura and Jun’s relationship, and that means that they picked up this story because Miura is in it. Miura who is straight, and cute, and honest, and likable, and a fujoshi. Miura who gets cheated on and whose relationship with Jun overshadows much of the queer content and development of the queer characters. Miura, our straight heroine of this odd relationship dynamic who tragically fell in love with a gay man! Miura, who has had no actual experience with the gay community asides from BL and who also learns and acknowledges that gay people exist! She’s just incredibly sympathetic to a straight audience, and is the reason why this series picked up as much popularity/interest as it does.
I’ll just say this. The story without Miura would still be bad. It would still be problematic, still have the same inconsistencies, and still be a tough read. But that story wouldn’t exist as a manga or a live action or maybe even as an actual published novel, because its dramatized queer content does not appeal to a broad audience the same way that the story of a straight fujioshi would instead.
Yabaibunni
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@chanana
...I was on with you about increasing marketability, but the prejudice part with gay men, man...nobody was confirming anything here. The reason Jun cheated and the reason Miura exists is because the author choose to mirror the entire story on Queen. It wasnt meant to be a marking ploy directly but I see how that could happen. However, painting it a way to confirm straight prejudices and say the whole story was successful because of her is entirely wrong to a fault...The novel, for one, has only Jun's point of view and that thereby makes him the most sympathetic. Moreover, the author has said this story is simply a way to educate about different types of love. The fujoshi element simply fit well because here is a homosexual that thinks he can be straight if he tries hard enough, and here is a girl that claims to like homosexuals because of BL. Both dont know the truth behind their interests but come together under a delusion they have.
...I was on with you about increasing marketability, but the prejudice part with gay men, man...nobody was confirming anything here. The reason Jun cheated and the reason Miura exists is because the author choose to mirror the entire story on Queen. It wasnt meant to be a marking ploy directly but I see how that could happen. However, painting it a way to confirm straight prejudices and say the whole story was successful because of her is entirely wrong to a fault...The novel, for one, has only Jun's point of view and that thereby makes him the most sympathetic. Moreover, the author has said this story is simply a way to educate about different types of love. The fujoshi element simply fit well because here is a homosexual that thinks he can be straight if he tries hard enough, and here is a girl that claims to like homosexuals because of BL. Both dont know the truth behind their interests but come together under a delusion they have.
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@chanana I think simplifying Jun and Miura's relationship as a "gimmick" is doing a disservice to the story. I have no idea about marketability since technically this manga isn't aimed at ANY of us (non-Japanese speaking audience) but it does benefit a story to have multiple different characters through which the audience can empathize with. If some rando straight fujoshi who never gave a thought to real gay people reads this manga and it makes them think a little bit more about what real lgbtqa people go through, then that's a win, in my book. *shrugs*
I can't speak for all fujoshi, but I do know that a LARGE chunk of the non-Japanese speaking BL audience are queer themselves, with both men and women alike as readers. Sure, the market still isn't catered to them specifically, but BL has gotten more diverse in the last couple of years and many reading just want to read a fantastical romance story that doesn't have the same hetero-nonsense in straight romances, whether those be shoujo, shounen or otherwise. Many of them read this story because they related to Jun more than Miura and felt a deep connection to his struggles.
I can't speak for all fujoshi, but I do know that a LARGE chunk of the non-Japanese speaking BL audience are queer themselves, with both men and women alike as readers. Sure, the market still isn't catered to them specifically, but BL has gotten more diverse in the last couple of years and many reading just want to read a fantastical romance story that doesn't have the same hetero-nonsense in straight romances, whether those be shoujo, shounen or otherwise. Many of them read this story because they related to Jun more than Miura and felt a deep connection to his struggles.
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@yabaibunni
You’re right about the straight prejudices part, I worded that wrongly and harshly, so I’ll adjust it/remove it from my criticism. Lot's of homophobic rhetoric was used within the novel many times though (often by characters who ID as straight and who possess a limited knowledge on the LGBTQ+ community) so whether they mean it intentionally or not, it's okay to acknowledge that they exist and can be interpreted as such.
To say this story is popular because it was able to weave together a story using Queen/their songs on that merit alone also isn’t realistic though. I admire what the author did, but I didn’t read this work because of an interest in Queen, and you can’t expect that the majority of readers who read this to have as deep an understanding of their songs/lyrics as you or other Queen fans. I won’t say that all these elements make the story a good/bad one, because even if he’s able to write this story based on Queen songs, it doesn’t mean that his execution of what he tried to do was done well in a narrative sense though.
Like for the delusion bit, a lot was emphasized with Jun's delusions on being gay//being straight with his conversations with makoto, miura, ono, mr. farenheit etc. So that part was emphasized clearly, but Miura's delusions didn't receive as much depth and remained pretty stagnant compared to those of that Jun's were ever-changing and evolving one. I bet part of this was due to the narration style and the focus on Jun's POV (as you said) but if you are to base your story off of it (delusions) then I'd expect the story to have more focus on delusions, false perceptions, and the natures of hopes v. realities. Instead we get, a watered down story of//based on delusions. There is no clear establishment of themes within the novel outside of a few select instances.
And even if the author wrote this story without intending it, you have to admit that Miura adds to the marketability of the story as a whole. She’s a big reason why this story became as successful as it did. As a reader it’s important to both be critical of the content you’re reading and the environment in which it was a produced. All these factors (Miura’s ability to pull in a straight/cisgender audience, the pull of an author structuring a narrative through the Queen songs, the different forms of love approached) draw in different audiences and make for the novel’s popularity. I’m just saying that I bet a large part of why the novel garnered as much success as it did was due to Miura’s role within it, intentional or not.
You’re right about the straight prejudices part, I worded that wrongly and harshly, so I’ll adjust it/remove it from my criticism. Lot's of homophobic rhetoric was used within the novel many times though (often by characters who ID as straight and who possess a limited knowledge on the LGBTQ+ community) so whether they mean it intentionally or not, it's okay to acknowledge that they exist and can be interpreted as such.
To say this story is popular because it was able to weave together a story using Queen/their songs on that merit alone also isn’t realistic though. I admire what the author did, but I didn’t read this work because of an interest in Queen, and you can’t expect that the majority of readers who read this to have as deep an understanding of their songs/lyrics as you or other Queen fans. I won’t say that all these elements make the story a good/bad one, because even if he’s able to write this story based on Queen songs, it doesn’t mean that his execution of what he tried to do was done well in a narrative sense though.
Like for the delusion bit, a lot was emphasized with Jun's delusions on being gay//being straight with his conversations with makoto, miura, ono, mr. farenheit etc. So that part was emphasized clearly, but Miura's delusions didn't receive as much depth and remained pretty stagnant compared to those of that Jun's were ever-changing and evolving one. I bet part of this was due to the narration style and the focus on Jun's POV (as you said) but if you are to base your story off of it (delusions) then I'd expect the story to have more focus on delusions, false perceptions, and the natures of hopes v. realities. Instead we get, a watered down story of//based on delusions. There is no clear establishment of themes within the novel outside of a few select instances.
And even if the author wrote this story without intending it, you have to admit that Miura adds to the marketability of the story as a whole. She’s a big reason why this story became as successful as it did. As a reader it’s important to both be critical of the content you’re reading and the environment in which it was a produced. All these factors (Miura’s ability to pull in a straight/cisgender audience, the pull of an author structuring a narrative through the Queen songs, the different forms of love approached) draw in different audiences and make for the novel’s popularity. I’m just saying that I bet a large part of why the novel garnered as much success as it did was due to Miura’s role within it, intentional or not.
Yabaibunni
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@chanana I already did admit that Miura as a character did play a role in the marketing. I also wasn't saying Queen was the main selling point. The main seller was Jun and HIS struggles.
I looked into the publication of the novel and original web novel reviews, and I also read the director's opinion piece at the end of the novel (signifying the Drama was planned before the novel's publication). All point towards Jun, a man struggling between his sexuality and to actually love a woman romantically. NOW THAT is an interesting selling point. It made it easier to relate to the audience because while he is a homosexual he tries to have a straight romance. But the series doesn't try to make it into a "gay man turn straight." No, it's more complicated than that because Jun cannot and will never get it up. This feeds into his mental turmoil before we read a POV where he accepts him being him; a homosexual through and through, but just found somebody he cares for deeply that's outside of that box—like Freddie Mercury.
In the novel this develops more as we see a human struggling to overcome his self-delusion that he can still date men, but have a family. The selfishness and greed all humans have, even if it's not directed the same as Jun. The manga is, however, a water down version of such and I don't mind people that criticise it for such. But I tried to give as much context as possible with novel experts to hopefully make people not think this series' popularity was for the wrong reasons, such as feeding into gay prejudices or being fujoushi bait. No, the series gained popularity because it took the homosexual story and introduced a new element that is not recognized as much. The divide between romantic attraction and sexual attraction. Miura may have played a huge part in accomplishing that theme, but the novel and series in general, was all Jun and his inner conflict in discovering that.
I appreciate you sharing, though. I honestly didn't think about the marketing aspect until you mentioned it.
I looked into the publication of the novel and original web novel reviews, and I also read the director's opinion piece at the end of the novel (signifying the Drama was planned before the novel's publication). All point towards Jun, a man struggling between his sexuality and to actually love a woman romantically. NOW THAT is an interesting selling point. It made it easier to relate to the audience because while he is a homosexual he tries to have a straight romance. But the series doesn't try to make it into a "gay man turn straight." No, it's more complicated than that because Jun cannot and will never get it up. This feeds into his mental turmoil before we read a POV where he accepts him being him; a homosexual through and through, but just found somebody he cares for deeply that's outside of that box—like Freddie Mercury.
In the novel this develops more as we see a human struggling to overcome his self-delusion that he can still date men, but have a family. The selfishness and greed all humans have, even if it's not directed the same as Jun. The manga is, however, a water down version of such and I don't mind people that criticise it for such. But I tried to give as much context as possible with novel experts to hopefully make people not think this series' popularity was for the wrong reasons, such as feeding into gay prejudices or being fujoushi bait. No, the series gained popularity because it took the homosexual story and introduced a new element that is not recognized as much. The divide between romantic attraction and sexual attraction. Miura may have played a huge part in accomplishing that theme, but the novel and series in general, was all Jun and his inner conflict in discovering that.
I appreciate you sharing, though. I honestly didn't think about the marketing aspect until you mentioned it.
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@gwkimmy
I used the word gimmick, not because I see it as one, but because it could be seen as one. Same as taglines such as the infamous “Cool and Calm Class President x Tsundere Delinquent!” or “middle aged private detective x infamous criminal!” (making these off the top of my head lol). It’s what garners people’s interest. There’s a kind of intrigue that makes you want to read something like, “A high school story about love between a straight fujoshi x gay man!” tagline, one that garners interest for a variety of reasons (whether it be you being gay, being a fujoshi, or person interested in how the two connect).
That’s the thing though, you know a large chunk of non-Japanese speaking BL audience is queer themselves. This story wasn’t written with us in mind though. The first I heard of it was through here, when I saw the title and was like…okay. That means that a large percent of the people who made it popular, were people involved with it in mainland Japan. But you can’t expect enough of the queer Japanese demographic to fight for this to be published in various media formats (if their power to band together and receive a give into their demands was possible, they’d probably put their time and energy into a different form of media that doesn’t have as many criticisms or something like actual civil rights progressions). No matter how much the Japanese queer audience likes it, so many adaptions would not be possible unless a larger audience is available, a larger pool of people would be willing to monetarily support it, and so this story needs appeal.
And I agree that BL has definitely gotten a lot more diverse through the years, both content wise and demographic wise. I myself reading this (at least initially) related more to Jun, and as the story progressed, only was reading this because I wanted to see Jun grow through this situation. I know he’s a horrible character/person, but part of me also sees a closeted kid isolated in an openly homophobic community whose close friend just died. I was very attached to his narrative because I wanted to see him reach a state of neutrality/happiness because I could see his struggle and could identify with it (the struggle not his rhetoric or actions). I’m sure many others also did, but I don’t think I would support the story monetarily more than once.
I used the word gimmick, not because I see it as one, but because it could be seen as one. Same as taglines such as the infamous “Cool and Calm Class President x Tsundere Delinquent!” or “middle aged private detective x infamous criminal!” (making these off the top of my head lol). It’s what garners people’s interest. There’s a kind of intrigue that makes you want to read something like, “A high school story about love between a straight fujoshi x gay man!” tagline, one that garners interest for a variety of reasons (whether it be you being gay, being a fujoshi, or person interested in how the two connect).
That’s the thing though, you know a large chunk of non-Japanese speaking BL audience is queer themselves. This story wasn’t written with us in mind though. The first I heard of it was through here, when I saw the title and was like…okay. That means that a large percent of the people who made it popular, were people involved with it in mainland Japan. But you can’t expect enough of the queer Japanese demographic to fight for this to be published in various media formats (if their power to band together and receive a give into their demands was possible, they’d probably put their time and energy into a different form of media that doesn’t have as many criticisms or something like actual civil rights progressions). No matter how much the Japanese queer audience likes it, so many adaptions would not be possible unless a larger audience is available, a larger pool of people would be willing to monetarily support it, and so this story needs appeal.
And I agree that BL has definitely gotten a lot more diverse through the years, both content wise and demographic wise. I myself reading this (at least initially) related more to Jun, and as the story progressed, only was reading this because I wanted to see Jun grow through this situation. I know he’s a horrible character/person, but part of me also sees a closeted kid isolated in an openly homophobic community whose close friend just died. I was very attached to his narrative because I wanted to see him reach a state of neutrality/happiness because I could see his struggle and could identify with it (the struggle not his rhetoric or actions). I’m sure many others also did, but I don’t think I would support the story monetarily more than once.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2019
- Messages
- 44
@yabaibunni
Hmmm I didn’t know that about the order of each release, I assumed that it went the typical direction of webnovel > novel > drama > manga (also apology if I missed a thing or two in my previous reply it’s late here). That theme/message/ premise of the struggles between your sexuality and your desires of romance/romantic fruition is more attracting (especially since the story isn’t a whole gay man turns straight situation). I still some mixed feelings about everything else included in the series in order for us to get to this point, but I guess it’s weird to assume that everyone you know can/ has thought to distinguish between sexual and romantic attraction (as a queer person I know I thought of it a lot, and as a person who previously ID’d as ace I know I thought of it a lot too).
That just makes me mad at the manga then lol. I feel as if the artist didn’t do a good job of adapting that part, or missed a large portion of what they were supposed to establish from the narrative itself. Even if the narrative is weak, maladapting the selling point of the story kind of destroys it and makes the adaptation a waste of the source material. Your translations were wonderful by the way, and the extra information you’d include at the end of the chapter notes was extremely informative (especially appreciated the novel excerpts for giving/adding more context). I can tell you put A LOT of effort into your translation//adaption, and it’s kind of infuriating that the medium that the story was told through (the manga) didn’t apply the same amount of care.
Hmmm I didn’t know that about the order of each release, I assumed that it went the typical direction of webnovel > novel > drama > manga (also apology if I missed a thing or two in my previous reply it’s late here). That theme/message/ premise of the struggles between your sexuality and your desires of romance/romantic fruition is more attracting (especially since the story isn’t a whole gay man turns straight situation). I still some mixed feelings about everything else included in the series in order for us to get to this point, but I guess it’s weird to assume that everyone you know can/ has thought to distinguish between sexual and romantic attraction (as a queer person I know I thought of it a lot, and as a person who previously ID’d as ace I know I thought of it a lot too).
That just makes me mad at the manga then lol. I feel as if the artist didn’t do a good job of adapting that part, or missed a large portion of what they were supposed to establish from the narrative itself. Even if the narrative is weak, maladapting the selling point of the story kind of destroys it and makes the adaptation a waste of the source material. Your translations were wonderful by the way, and the extra information you’d include at the end of the chapter notes was extremely informative (especially appreciated the novel excerpts for giving/adding more context). I can tell you put A LOT of effort into your translation//adaption, and it’s kind of infuriating that the medium that the story was told through (the manga) didn’t apply the same amount of care.
Yabaibunni
Group Leader
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2019
- Messages
- 367
@chanana Thank you so much for noticing! The manga indeed did not do this series justice and I tried my best in every way I can to compensate. A lot of it was because of the restriction in narration, where the artist was forced to 'show rather than tell'. This is a novel DEEPLY CENTERED around the mind of Jun, so that was its downfall. Moreover, Miura had less dialogue which thereby hurt people in seeing her development. I think the drama paints her better even though the dialogue isn't as much like the manga because despite that, we see her natural facial expressions that make you feel she's more grounded.
While I still appreciate the manga (buying physical, raw copies atm), I can only do such because I can fill in the gaps with the novel. I would love it if it could get translated and published officially, as unfortunately I'm not going to do it myself for legal and time-consuming reasons (the language is beautiful and thereby advance in how I should word it). Atm, i'm emailing companies in hope the whole series gets picked up from the manga to the novel.
But with that being said, I do hope you check out the sequel, though. Which it is not the "official" ver (as in, I think the author is going to publish a second book once he's done with the web novel sequel), his writing style has improved a lot and is quite close to the actual novel level. Moreover, we learn much more about ALL the characters. This way despite not reading the novel, you'll be able to see the growth from their delusions and now further as they reach adulthood. Miura's section is also the second song right after Jun's from a 3rd POV. It's song in the playlist titled "Fat Bottom Girls".
While I still appreciate the manga (buying physical, raw copies atm), I can only do such because I can fill in the gaps with the novel. I would love it if it could get translated and published officially, as unfortunately I'm not going to do it myself for legal and time-consuming reasons (the language is beautiful and thereby advance in how I should word it). Atm, i'm emailing companies in hope the whole series gets picked up from the manga to the novel.
But with that being said, I do hope you check out the sequel, though. Which it is not the "official" ver (as in, I think the author is going to publish a second book once he's done with the web novel sequel), his writing style has improved a lot and is quite close to the actual novel level. Moreover, we learn much more about ALL the characters. This way despite not reading the novel, you'll be able to see the growth from their delusions and now further as they reach adulthood. Miura's section is also the second song right after Jun's from a 3rd POV. It's song in the playlist titled "Fat Bottom Girls".
. Thanks for the series and I await your next workI'm not super familiar with the mangadex commenting system so I hope this actually @ s people
@chanana
Thank you for all you've said about this series!! I definitely agree with you in a lot of ways and I really like to see other gay people weigh in on stuff like this!
Something that really frustrated me about Miura's character was that we never got to see her actually interacting with gay people more then fetishizing them -> then seeing they're real people -> then her fiasco with Jun (correct me, I don't usually have great memory). I really wish we say her actually interacting with gay people as people outside of Jun. Miura is a weird character to me because of my personal experiences with fujoshi, cishet girl fujos, and straight people as a lesbian. Before I realized I was gay, I was a fujo and I've interacted with fujos in many ways online. Through this it's really hard to deny that a majority of fujos are cishet girls and (like miura) these are cishet girls who are usually experiencing gay stories that are told by other cishet women. This leads to a common trend of fujoshi really disliking lesbians. This usually comes from ignorance and thinking lesbians are "into them" but it's still something that needs to be addressed. With my negative experiences with fujos from being a lesbian, I was pretty much set up to dislike Miura and her shallow view of what being gay is really like. My problems with Miura also span from my experience with straight people and romance. In the aspect of having to deal with a straight person of the opposite gender being into you, I relate to Jun a lot. It's really scary not being out and being in a situation where people KNOW this person is into you and now you have to deal with it. In the beginning I was ok with how their relationship was, but as it continued it was obvious how unsustainable it was. Jun wants a family, he wants sex, he wants kids and happiness and a picket fence, and he can have all that with a man. Obviously part of his growth is realizing he can't play at being straight because he won't be happy with it, but he really should have realized he doesn't need to be in a "relationship" with miura. From their fight and how the relationship falls apart we should see that this isn't something that'll be solved by just getting to know each other better. Jun and Miura holding onto eachother as boyfriend and girlfriend just isn't healthy for either of them because they won't be able to give eachother what they really want in life. I hope they both find happiness and become good friends for life but they definitely need to develop away from each other. (Maybe this is confusing, I'm on my phone rn and can't reread it)
@yabaibunni I'm not sure if this will @ you properly but are you cishet? Or at least same-gender attracted in some way? I just want to know because I think being gay really effects how you read this manga and your outlook on it. Also I'm not sure where you're from but please don't use the term "homosexual", most people really do not like it because it's usually used by straight people/ with negative connotations.
@chanana
Thank you for all you've said about this series!! I definitely agree with you in a lot of ways and I really like to see other gay people weigh in on stuff like this!
Something that really frustrated me about Miura's character was that we never got to see her actually interacting with gay people more then fetishizing them -> then seeing they're real people -> then her fiasco with Jun (correct me, I don't usually have great memory). I really wish we say her actually interacting with gay people as people outside of Jun. Miura is a weird character to me because of my personal experiences with fujoshi, cishet girl fujos, and straight people as a lesbian. Before I realized I was gay, I was a fujo and I've interacted with fujos in many ways online. Through this it's really hard to deny that a majority of fujos are cishet girls and (like miura) these are cishet girls who are usually experiencing gay stories that are told by other cishet women. This leads to a common trend of fujoshi really disliking lesbians. This usually comes from ignorance and thinking lesbians are "into them" but it's still something that needs to be addressed. With my negative experiences with fujos from being a lesbian, I was pretty much set up to dislike Miura and her shallow view of what being gay is really like. My problems with Miura also span from my experience with straight people and romance. In the aspect of having to deal with a straight person of the opposite gender being into you, I relate to Jun a lot. It's really scary not being out and being in a situation where people KNOW this person is into you and now you have to deal with it. In the beginning I was ok with how their relationship was, but as it continued it was obvious how unsustainable it was. Jun wants a family, he wants sex, he wants kids and happiness and a picket fence, and he can have all that with a man. Obviously part of his growth is realizing he can't play at being straight because he won't be happy with it, but he really should have realized he doesn't need to be in a "relationship" with miura. From their fight and how the relationship falls apart we should see that this isn't something that'll be solved by just getting to know each other better. Jun and Miura holding onto eachother as boyfriend and girlfriend just isn't healthy for either of them because they won't be able to give eachother what they really want in life. I hope they both find happiness and become good friends for life but they definitely need to develop away from each other. (Maybe this is confusing, I'm on my phone rn and can't reread it)
@yabaibunni I'm not sure if this will @ you properly but are you cishet? Or at least same-gender attracted in some way? I just want to know because I think being gay really effects how you read this manga and your outlook on it. Also I'm not sure where you're from but please don't use the term "homosexual", most people really do not like it because it's usually used by straight people/ with negative connotations.
