The New Gate - Vol. 2 Ch. 13

[MangaDex]

 

[Kaarme]

This traditional pen & paper RPG level up mechanism is so screwed up for stories. It should remain with simple games and stay there. Even better computer games these days use something else. This arc demonstrated the worst aspect of it: Two strong guys beat relatively high level monsters onto the brink of death, and then some noob delivers the finishing blow of a few HP of damage with her eyes closed... and she is treated as if she did all the work and gains massive benefits, levelling up like a rocket. But perhaps this scheme somehow suits the Japanese mindset so well that they use it even when it looks, objectively, utterly stupid.

 

[hypernova911]

So they did a convergence event and make a discount brethren moon

 

[UzunBoyluCuce]

@Kaarme
That trick is often used in RPGs as well, but it's not that effective. If you're level 10, then you can be around level 40 but even that would be hard.

 

[StLL]

AINZZZZZ SAMA!

 

[rona_shen]

I really like this cu looking dude

 

[Serenata]

Damn they sure nerfed her design from the novel to this manga

 

[DragonMaus]

@Kaarme

I have no problem with that mechanism, or the "exploit" that you mentioned. It allows a group to boost a late-joining friend so that everyone can play on a more equal level. Playing with someone across a large level gap is generally not very fun for either party.

 

[Kaarme]

@DragonMaus Yeah, that's why I said it looks stupid in stories. I can appreciate such a mechanism in simple games where you just want to have fun with your friends. It doesn't really matter there if it makes sense or not, as long as things are entertaining. But if I was actually living in a world where things worked like that, I'd hate is massively. When I read stories where it's like that, I just find it ridiculous and maybe annoying, depending how much it matters in the big picture. But I most certainly love games like Elder Scrolls where things are handled totally differently.

 

[SotiCoto]

@Kaarme : Why would you call it a "traditional pen & paper RPG level up mechanism"? It is like this in most computer RPGs... particularly JRPGs... yet in P&P style roleplaying, experience is typically distributed only at the GM/DM's sayso ... i.e. NOT like what you described at all...

Either way, it seems ridiculous in a non-interactive narrative like this, but then so do levels, attribute points, status screens, inventory pocket dimensions, etc.

 

[Kaarme]

@SotiCoto It all started with D&D, as far as I know. Kill a monster, gain exp. Enough exp and you level up. Benefits come from levelling up. Over the years and in many RPG games on PC or consoles it has developed further, which is then also reflected by the seemingly game based LN/manga.

I'm not saying the other game stuff wouldn't be similarly foolish in isekai, but in many cases it matters less. At the end of the day, however, 99% of these series are so superficial that it's possible the authors wouldn't even have the talent/skills to do away with all of this stuff, without making things too hard for themselves and the readers. I reckon it's also a solid way to keep things feeling more like (unnatural) isekai, instead of generic fantasy. Still, I'd especially like the experince points based level ups to disappear.

 

[SotiCoto]

@Kaarme : But it doesn't exactly work the way you suggested in D&D. As I said, experience is distributed at the DM's discretion. And yeah, sure, you level up from gaining experience... but it isn't necessarily just killing a monster, gaining experience... as I learnt the hard way from one especially annoying campaign where the DM just couldn't be bothered with "experience" at all and just went through the entire campaign without anyone ever gaining any abilities.


As it stands, it does seem to be tied into the other game simplifications like the menu system the MC uses.
At least in the case of this particular story, the world literally WAS a game before, as opposed to the features having no meaningful explanation whatsoever.

 

[Kaarme]

@SotiCoto The menus and such are there so that the author can handle and show the readers progress exceedingly easily, plus they are often needed for the second most broken skill, universal appraisal. The same goes for levels. If it's game-turned-real, it kind of makes sense, but on the other hand, why are the NPCs suddenly real people? If the menus stay, then why don't the guards only ask you who stole your sweetroll, for all eternity? Because it would make the story deadly boring, most likely. These are just simply choices that reflect the author's ability and the market demands. A highly skillful author could as well write an idiotic story if they predict it will sell well and bring rice onto the table. Most isekai are trash and they repeat the exact same elements that are greedily devoured by the audience. That's how it goes. No need to try to reinvent the wheel, unfortunately.

As far as I can remember, the D&D rules books had the exp listed with every monster. Kill it, and you get that exp.

 

[SotiCoto]

@Kaarme : Can't recall if 2nd edition AD&D had it, let alone the original... but from 3rd edition onward there was an explicit mention in the Player's Guide book that the 0th Law of D&D is that all rules are subject to the will of the DM and can be changed if it makes for a better experience. And I've not had a single DM in any of the campaigns I played who let experience be allocated per monster killed at the point of death. Aside from the no-levelling-ever one, it was primarily determined on a group basis after scenarios ended (or later still, upon resting), whether combat or non-combat.

I can't recall it happening on the basis you described in any of the World of Darkness systems either... and obviously it didn't apply to Call of Cthulhu (at least not with experience, though insanity was dished out on the spot quite frequently).


Point being... what you described has always struck me as primarily a trope of console / computer RPGs and NOT the Pen & Paper variety...