Tsuki to Taiyou
- Thread starter MangaDex
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Definitely needs a Smut tag. Various instances of gay sex. It is just a light bar, some times. It leaves out big parts, yes. But we still get many instances of anal or blow jobs being depicted, if only for a few panels. Not mentioning cum shots and facials. Could you have guessed its explicit nature from the cover? Not really. Nudity? Not unlikely. But shower sex in the first chapter? No.
Beyond that, impressive character development in just a few chapters and rather wholesome. Despite the rape-y beginning of the main relationship. But he did need some punishment. Will look out for tags and probably avoid Yaoi even more now. Being thrown into this as my first one was rather extreme.
Beyond that, impressive character development in just a few chapters and rather wholesome. Despite the rape-y beginning of the main relationship. But he did need some punishment. Will look out for tags and probably avoid Yaoi even more now. Being thrown into this as my first one was rather extreme.
Pokari
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@Nestrior:
De facto, no one really bothers tagging Yaoi with smut and/or hentai tags by the official mangadex standards; it's understood by those who read them that "yaoi" means explicit sex and "shounen-ai" is everything else.
I've tried to talk to the admins about it before but it kind of feels like mostly the admin are men that don't read the genre and only vaguely get what's in them and the discussion wasn't very fruitful as a result (and I've given up worrying about it). But, the short of it is, de facto almost anything with a "yaoi" tag can be assumed to have at least an implicit "smut" tag (when judging by the standards currently used for every other genre).
De facto, no one really bothers tagging Yaoi with smut and/or hentai tags by the official mangadex standards; it's understood by those who read them that "yaoi" means explicit sex and "shounen-ai" is everything else.
I've tried to talk to the admins about it before but it kind of feels like mostly the admin are men that don't read the genre and only vaguely get what's in them and the discussion wasn't very fruitful as a result (and I've given up worrying about it). But, the short of it is, de facto almost anything with a "yaoi" tag can be assumed to have at least an implicit "smut" tag (when judging by the standards currently used for every other genre).
@Pokari
I got that general feeling when paying closer attention to the Yaoi covers I come across when hitting random. Some are rather obvious, others I wouldn't be so sure. But I will avoid it in general. As I had been before I jumped blindly into this one. Didn't even glance at the tags. I admit that I was somewhat blind with the cover, but come on. Just taking it as silent convention is not ok. That's the same as saying that every Seinen has an inherent Ecchi if not outright Smut tag because it's Seinen.
I get that it's difficult to monitor such a big site, especially when your team is not into some genres. My solution would be to have most big genres represented on it, so that you have better odds of catching stuff like this, but alas.
I got that general feeling when paying closer attention to the Yaoi covers I come across when hitting random. Some are rather obvious, others I wouldn't be so sure. But I will avoid it in general. As I had been before I jumped blindly into this one. Didn't even glance at the tags. I admit that I was somewhat blind with the cover, but come on. Just taking it as silent convention is not ok. That's the same as saying that every Seinen has an inherent Ecchi if not outright Smut tag because it's Seinen.
I get that it's difficult to monitor such a big site, especially when your team is not into some genres. My solution would be to have most big genres represented on it, so that you have better odds of catching stuff like this, but alas.
Pokari
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@Nestrior:
Ehh... The analogy is a little wrong "seinen = ecchi" is stereotyping and obviously not always true; whereas "yaoi = explicit sex" is by-definition (true 100% of the time unless mis-tagged). Some small (maybe 10 percent?) fraction of it might be arguable as not-smut by reason of relatively tasteful camera angles, but... well, that's the gist of it.
Anyway, talking to me about site management won't do much, I'm not a staff or anything XD (I do have description-edit permissions because I asked for them back when they were handing them out early on, but they used to be open to everyone and I wish they'd go back to that TBH). And I totally argued in the forums against adding a bunch of additional tags back when they were first proposed, so I'm with you on that. I was just explaining A) what you should know (if you want sex-less gay stuff, pick "shounen-ai" and B) why I'm personally not going to get involved in trying to figure out which yaoi should be "smut" or not.
(Besides, I like to read stuff myself to confirm before changing the tags, and this one doesn't looks like my personal cup of tea :'p I only came over to the comments to see if anyone was going to persuade me otherwise—which you did not XD)
Ehh... The analogy is a little wrong "seinen = ecchi" is stereotyping and obviously not always true; whereas "yaoi = explicit sex" is by-definition (true 100% of the time unless mis-tagged). Some small (maybe 10 percent?) fraction of it might be arguable as not-smut by reason of relatively tasteful camera angles, but... well, that's the gist of it.
Anyway, talking to me about site management won't do much, I'm not a staff or anything XD (I do have description-edit permissions because I asked for them back when they were handing them out early on, but they used to be open to everyone and I wish they'd go back to that TBH). And I totally argued in the forums against adding a bunch of additional tags back when they were first proposed, so I'm with you on that. I was just explaining A) what you should know (if you want sex-less gay stuff, pick "shounen-ai" and B) why I'm personally not going to get involved in trying to figure out which yaoi should be "smut" or not.
(Besides, I like to read stuff myself to confirm before changing the tags, and this one doesn't looks like my personal cup of tea :'p I only came over to the comments to see if anyone was going to persuade me otherwise—which you did not XD)
@Pokari:
Actually didn't know that it was that universal/by definition. Once saw a definition of Josei that included more realistic romances and the first one I picked had a sex scene right in the beginning... Yeah...
I am not into any BL stuff in general, I just took a blind dive with this one and felt like I had to point the missing tag out. I am also completely honest about stuff. There's genuine character growth and a blossoming relationship in this one, despite the length (that's what he said). Just... Give us a damn grace period. XD But I was also able to read Twilight for the Vampire Myth alone, so I might be weird there.
Actually didn't know that it was that universal/by definition. Once saw a definition of Josei that included more realistic romances and the first one I picked had a sex scene right in the beginning... Yeah...
I am not into any BL stuff in general, I just took a blind dive with this one and felt like I had to point the missing tag out. I am also completely honest about stuff. There's genuine character growth and a blossoming relationship in this one, despite the length (that's what he said). Just... Give us a damn grace period. XD But I was also able to read Twilight for the Vampire Myth alone, so I might be weird there.
Pokari
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@Nestrior:
Only the "yaoi" tag in particular has this weird hard-line convention around it like that, it's understandable not to know.
Honestly the term has some weird history; legend has it that in japan it's an acronym standing for "no climax, no conclusion, no meaning," or, basically, "plotless gay porno". Obviously that's not how the western fanbase is using it; as you've discovered a non-trivial portion of this stuff is actually quite well written (though of course there's also a lot of utter garbage), and can be quite powerful or endearing.
Though it definitely also has as a genre a general trend towards certain key flaws—one will run into a lot of suddenly-casual-sex (at seriously WTF levels, like if two polite people just met and were having a nice chat and then suddenly the pants are off and it's go time), a really uncomfortable relationship with the idea of consent or with sexual-abuse-portrayed-as-love, and a tendency towards really narrow views of homosexuality (there is a fixed 'pants' and a 'skirt' in most yaoi relationships to a greater or lesser degree).
Only the "yaoi" tag in particular has this weird hard-line convention around it like that, it's understandable not to know.
Honestly the term has some weird history; legend has it that in japan it's an acronym standing for "no climax, no conclusion, no meaning," or, basically, "plotless gay porno". Obviously that's not how the western fanbase is using it; as you've discovered a non-trivial portion of this stuff is actually quite well written (though of course there's also a lot of utter garbage), and can be quite powerful or endearing.
Though it definitely also has as a genre a general trend towards certain key flaws—one will run into a lot of suddenly-casual-sex (at seriously WTF levels, like if two polite people just met and were having a nice chat and then suddenly the pants are off and it's go time), a really uncomfortable relationship with the idea of consent or with sexual-abuse-portrayed-as-love, and a tendency towards really narrow views of homosexuality (there is a fixed 'pants' and a 'skirt' in most yaoi relationships to a greater or lesser degree).
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I love it!
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I really liked this! But was really hoping for them to be reversible. Oh wells.
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