Vacation Maou to Pet
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Cute Demon King, instant follow
GoggledAnon
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Deoxyribo9
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@Deoxyribo9
so GL subtext +fanservice falls under shojo ai?
so GL subtext +fanservice falls under shojo ai?
Deoxyribo9
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Pokari
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@Neorasp:
Unfortunately, people disagree on where the shoujo-ai/yuri line lies (consider for instance that half the time the manhua "Tamen De Gushi" has a yuri tag and half the time it doesn't, for instance—it had appeared and disappeared several times over the years on Batoto).
(By contrast, in shounen-ai / yaoi it's basically just an indicator of whether there's explicit sex or not. The agreement there seems to be stronger. Also, there's this weird thing where everyone ignores the fact, that that means almost everything labeled yaoi should really belong in the R-18 section. But that's another story entirely.)
However, traditionally, just subtext and fan-service by themselves, do not a shoujo-ai make. Otherwise two-thirds of CGDCT series would be shoujo-ai... There is admittedly a fuzzy area when the series is completely about GL fanservice, which this may fall into.
Anyway, as I hinted before, I wouldn't go so far as to say putting a shoujo-ai tag on this would necessarily be wrong. In practical terms, it's probably close enough as far as guiding folks to the correct fandom is concerned. But I wouldn't put one on it myself, yet.
Unfortunately, people disagree on where the shoujo-ai/yuri line lies (consider for instance that half the time the manhua "Tamen De Gushi" has a yuri tag and half the time it doesn't, for instance—it had appeared and disappeared several times over the years on Batoto).
(By contrast, in shounen-ai / yaoi it's basically just an indicator of whether there's explicit sex or not. The agreement there seems to be stronger. Also, there's this weird thing where everyone ignores the fact, that that means almost everything labeled yaoi should really belong in the R-18 section. But that's another story entirely.)
However, traditionally, just subtext and fan-service by themselves, do not a shoujo-ai make. Otherwise two-thirds of CGDCT series would be shoujo-ai... There is admittedly a fuzzy area when the series is completely about GL fanservice, which this may fall into.
As for the line "I adore you, my pet"—I thought the premise to this point was that the Demon Lord had taken the protagonist as a literal pet. Which knocks the romance per-se out of that line for me (though without doubt it's meant to be suggestive).
I mean, I suppose it could be said that, what with all the things left unexplained in this so far, it's possible that the definition of "pet" in the contract at the beginning does indeed mean "romantic companion", and that the girl's mother is renting her out as a... erm, lady of the night. If so I'd have expected to have heard about it by now, though.
It seems far more likely that it's a chosen as a deliberately suggestive but factually innocent (or at least ambiguous) term on part of the author.
I mean, I suppose it could be said that, what with all the things left unexplained in this so far, it's possible that the definition of "pet" in the contract at the beginning does indeed mean "romantic companion", and that the girl's mother is renting her out as a... erm, lady of the night. If so I'd have expected to have heard about it by now, though.
It seems far more likely that it's a chosen as a deliberately suggestive but factually innocent (or at least ambiguous) term on part of the author.
Anyway, as I hinted before, I wouldn't go so far as to say putting a shoujo-ai tag on this would necessarily be wrong. In practical terms, it's probably close enough as far as guiding folks to the correct fandom is concerned. But I wouldn't put one on it myself, yet.
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@Pokari
Why is a pet means no romance when catgirls are a thing?
I think yuri is outright romance, while shoujo ai is just the subtext of romance. so ok, cgdct has some skinship, but when there are 2 (no more, no less) main characters the skinship takes an upgrade. there is a diffrance betweeen skinship out of playfullness, that exists in most cgdct, and skinship out of honest will for intimacy, like in this story.
Why is a pet means no romance when catgirls are a thing?
I think yuri is outright romance, while shoujo ai is just the subtext of romance. so ok, cgdct has some skinship, but when there are 2 (no more, no less) main characters the skinship takes an upgrade. there is a diffrance betweeen skinship out of playfullness, that exists in most cgdct, and skinship out of honest will for intimacy, like in this story.
Pokari
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@neorasp:
Cat girls...? I think you missed my meaning. A pet doesn't mean romance, nor does it not mean romance (in manga, at the very least. The ASPCA may wish to have a word with anyone romancing their pet IRL). However, it does alter the range of possible meanings, of a line of dialouge about a "pet".
And... shoujo-ai is generally understood to be romance, last time I checked >_>; Or possibly the implication of romance, in some of the shorter and quieter pieces. But not just subtext. (There being a distinct difference between implied romance and romantic subtext)
...Anyway, this is at risk of turning into an argument between two people instead of a healthy and relevant comment-section-debate, so I'm going to withdraw from this discussion for now.
Edit:
Actually, scratch all that, let's actually talk about this history of this.
This argument isn't at all new. Old threads that hash this every which way (from Batoto):
https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/13355-yuri-vs-shoujo-ai/
https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/12643-excise-shoujo-ai-genre-tag-merge-into-yuri/
On mangaupdates and batoto, from which the tags Mangadex uses were taken, this debate was generally settled in favor of "shoujo-ai" and "yuri" being analogous to "shounen-ai" and "yaoi". That is to say—more or less decided on the question of whether there were on-screen sex-y bits.
Edit: Got ninja'd two minute before posting this edit. But my statement about any more than this being too much for the comments probably holds true anyway, so I guess it's fine.
And... shoujo-ai is generally understood to be romance, last time I checked >_>; Or possibly the implication of romance, in some of the shorter and quieter pieces. But not just subtext. (There being a distinct difference between implied romance and romantic subtext)
...Anyway, this is at risk of turning into an argument between two people instead of a healthy and relevant comment-section-debate, so I'm going to withdraw from this discussion for now.
Edit:
Actually, scratch all that, let's actually talk about this history of this.
This argument isn't at all new. Old threads that hash this every which way (from Batoto):
https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/13355-yuri-vs-shoujo-ai/
https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/12643-excise-shoujo-ai-genre-tag-merge-into-yuri/
The four-element genre-set of shounen-ai, shoujo-ai, yaoi, and yuri do not match the Japanese usage of these terms at all.
"shoujo-ai" and "shounen-ai" are said to in japan to traditionally mean "lolicon yuri" and "shouta yaoi", respectively. "Yaoi" is a comparatively obscure term for "plotless porno BL". And "Yuri" refers to all of GL in general.
In essence, in English, they're messed-up loan-words. Japanese fandom does this with english words too, so that's okay.
In usage in (parts of) the English fandom, the evolution is beleived to be something like, "Yaoi" got used for gay stuff, "shounen-ai" got used to distinguish more tame (not-sexy-time) gay stuff, "shoujo-ai" got adopted as an analogue, turning "yuri" into meaning more-explicit stuff.
The fandom is split on this issue—yuri in particular means something close enough in Japanese and English such that there's an ongoing fight over it's meaning. Some fans prefer the shoujo-ai/shounen-ai, yaoi/yuri symmetry (which many consider standard); others would prefer to abandon (or perhaps more weirdly and arbitrarily, relegate to only to "super pure no kissing even stuff") the "shoujo-ai" term.
"shoujo-ai" and "shounen-ai" are said to in japan to traditionally mean "lolicon yuri" and "shouta yaoi", respectively. "Yaoi" is a comparatively obscure term for "plotless porno BL". And "Yuri" refers to all of GL in general.
In essence, in English, they're messed-up loan-words. Japanese fandom does this with english words too, so that's okay.
In usage in (parts of) the English fandom, the evolution is beleived to be something like, "Yaoi" got used for gay stuff, "shounen-ai" got used to distinguish more tame (not-sexy-time) gay stuff, "shoujo-ai" got adopted as an analogue, turning "yuri" into meaning more-explicit stuff.
The fandom is split on this issue—yuri in particular means something close enough in Japanese and English such that there's an ongoing fight over it's meaning. Some fans prefer the shoujo-ai/shounen-ai, yaoi/yuri symmetry (which many consider standard); others would prefer to abandon (or perhaps more weirdly and arbitrarily, relegate to only to "super pure no kissing even stuff") the "shoujo-ai" term.
Edit: Got ninja'd two minute before posting this edit. But my statement about any more than this being too much for the comments probably holds true anyway, so I guess it's fine.
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