820500
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2018
- Messages
- 18
@Kuuga well at least I've tried. In this case killing isn't an option as my childhood friend is impossible to kill. The only real option is to talk it out. Sure they won't have to do it but they'll still feel the guilt by proxy for a multitude of reasons.
"An action was carried out by someone I know who murdered millions-billions (not sure how many people live in this world) and I didn't have the power to stop him, if only I did things differently."
"To kill everyone who has done harm to my kin is such an extreme and I can't allow my friend to carry out that action only to benefit me and my kin. What about those who are not my kin and still do not want to harm me? How could we have ended this cycle of pain when both sides only see red?"
You can't tell them to not feel guilty, this very chapter shows that both sides have some level of guilt after doing terrible things to each other. Either they let Eren do what he wants and regret not attempting to stop him or actually try to deescalate the situation and feel less guilt in that you've tried everything in your power.
Sure, they may want me dead but if I do not at least put down my weapons and attempt peace, the alternative will almost guarantee a greater response.
"An action was carried out by someone I know who murdered millions-billions (not sure how many people live in this world) and I didn't have the power to stop him, if only I did things differently."
"To kill everyone who has done harm to my kin is such an extreme and I can't allow my friend to carry out that action only to benefit me and my kin. What about those who are not my kin and still do not want to harm me? How could we have ended this cycle of pain when both sides only see red?"
You can't tell them to not feel guilty, this very chapter shows that both sides have some level of guilt after doing terrible things to each other. Either they let Eren do what he wants and regret not attempting to stop him or actually try to deescalate the situation and feel less guilt in that you've tried everything in your power.
Sure, they may want me dead but if I do not at least put down my weapons and attempt peace, the alternative will almost guarantee a greater response.
@Skyu
Like i said for the guilt aspect Eren can fix that and lets say you do somehow talk him out of it what next. You've put down your weapons and attempted peace chances are they still wanna kill you especially after you try that Rumble shit. But let's say peace is an option for now but what of after Eren dies or if some country invents the nuke and wipes the island out of existence
Like i said for the guilt aspect Eren can fix that and lets say you do somehow talk him out of it what next. You've put down your weapons and attempted peace chances are they still wanna kill you especially after you try that Rumble shit. But let's say peace is an option for now but what of after Eren dies or if some country invents the nuke and wipes the island out of existence
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2018
- Messages
- 18
@Kuuga you're still not understanding that just because Eren does the act does not absolve his compatriots of guilt. Wiping millions of people out without any form of resistance is such a permanent solution to something that, even if it's a less than 1% chance, could be resolved. At this point in time, if they can get past Eren, that is something that needs to be handled when they get there but peace talks MUST happen for them to continue. Eren may have to take all the blame himself but that's a what if scenario. The nukes and stuff are what ifs and I wouldn't know how to deal with it but if Eren takes the blame then maybe they'll spare the island.
I wouldn't expect my enemies to like me overnight but slowly I'm hoping that they can change over a new leaf and I'm willing to give them that opportunity. If even Gabi was able to understand and beg on her knees for some form of salvation then I can't rule out a peaceful solution. I can't give you a 100% solid concrete peaceful resolution because both sides are not willing to let go of their hate.
I wouldn't expect my enemies to like me overnight but slowly I'm hoping that they can change over a new leaf and I'm willing to give them that opportunity. If even Gabi was able to understand and beg on her knees for some form of salvation then I can't rule out a peaceful solution. I can't give you a 100% solid concrete peaceful resolution because both sides are not willing to let go of their hate.
@Skyu
Your the one not getting it when I say Eren can remove the guilt from everyone else's mind. Dude can mindwipe everyone if he wants and that includes the guilt. Eren taking the blame is a non-factor imo cuz even b4 the rumbling everyone wanted to wiped out the Eldians and the Eldians have been hiding inside the walls for over 200 years now if the hate cold have been let go it would have been let go already. Also the fact that Eren could rumble that means someone else can rumble and non-Eldians would defo wanna get rid of the risk
Your the one not getting it when I say Eren can remove the guilt from everyone else's mind. Dude can mindwipe everyone if he wants and that includes the guilt. Eren taking the blame is a non-factor imo cuz even b4 the rumbling everyone wanted to wiped out the Eldians and the Eldians have been hiding inside the walls for over 200 years now if the hate cold have been let go it would have been let go already. Also the fact that Eren could rumble that means someone else can rumble and non-Eldians would defo wanna get rid of the risk
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2019
- Messages
- 705
Don't forget, Eren isn't the one who controls the Rumbling. He only opening the possibility for it to happen. The one who actually in control of the Rumbling is Ymir. If they want to stop anyone, they have to stop her.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 54
What idealists like Hange don't understand is that you don't do business with racist, especially if they are racist towards you. She obviously does not think about what happen after they actually kill Eren (they can't reason with him either, as that girl whose name I don't care about correctly said). And what would happen is that those subhumans like that scum Marleyan general would accuse her of something, rape and kill in prison, that's it. Not because it's dark and edgy but because they think that if you are born Eldian, you are not human and you can be treated as badly as anyone wants.
I just have realised, after I actually thought about it, that people from the island don't know what "nation" means, they think about all people as just "people", and they are reacting to Marley as just to temporary enemies because of misunderstanding. No, other countries on the planet have nationalistic mentality and are conditioned from birth that Eldians are less than humans, and they should be treated inequally just by the fact that Eldians are born Eldians. This is pure racism and this is incurable. People with this mentality should just cease to exist.
Eren stopped caring and decided to write off anybody outside the walls who is not actually racist as collateral damage, that's all. Morality of this action is questionable, but the goal is completely just. If you think that you can diminish the value of some person because of their birthplace or bloodline - drop dead, you have lost your right to live.
This is not a question of "some feud from 2000 years ago", it's totally in the question of "they are Eldians and we are Marley", that's it.
I just have realised, after I actually thought about it, that people from the island don't know what "nation" means, they think about all people as just "people", and they are reacting to Marley as just to temporary enemies because of misunderstanding. No, other countries on the planet have nationalistic mentality and are conditioned from birth that Eldians are less than humans, and they should be treated inequally just by the fact that Eldians are born Eldians. This is pure racism and this is incurable. People with this mentality should just cease to exist.
Eren stopped caring and decided to write off anybody outside the walls who is not actually racist as collateral damage, that's all. Morality of this action is questionable, but the goal is completely just. If you think that you can diminish the value of some person because of their birthplace or bloodline - drop dead, you have lost your right to live.
This is not a question of "some feud from 2000 years ago", it's totally in the question of "they are Eldians and we are Marley", that's it.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 54
Also, it seems that nobody from that hypocrites of characters understands that if people outside the walls would stop attacking people from island, everybody would just live normal human lives. But if people from island stop fighting for their lives, they would die. Kinda asymmetric, right?
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2019
- Messages
- 57
still rooting for Eren GO ON MY BOY FLAP YOUR WINGS OF FREEDOM
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2019
- Messages
- 102
@RC1138Boss
Full retard? Eren took the most rational option possible.
Full retard? Eren took the most rational option possible.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2018
- Messages
- 2,822
Oh, nice. Convenient gathering of all the sides to have the heavy-hitting talk about conflict.
I won't make light of it since I enjoyed it, but it's also why I easily like Eren more than everyone else in this situation. These guys are still in the midst of solidifying their goals and determination whereas Eren was going full-speed for the longest time now. He was aided significantly by future sight with properly pre-determined outcomes though, but that doesn't matter to me. Watching him go has been exhilarating.
The only question I'd have left is to exactly what point did that perfect foresight go? How much of all that is happening right now is still keikaku doori since Eren just knows everything - or does he really know even if he was privy to the linked memories? I think mechanically, that might be a bit of a fault in the story if all this is not just pre-determined, but that Eren is fully aware of it, so I'm assuming in some way Eren has hit that point where he's going in blind and letting the consequences reveal themselves as he goes.
I won't make light of it since I enjoyed it, but it's also why I easily like Eren more than everyone else in this situation. These guys are still in the midst of solidifying their goals and determination whereas Eren was going full-speed for the longest time now. He was aided significantly by future sight with properly pre-determined outcomes though, but that doesn't matter to me. Watching him go has been exhilarating.
The only question I'd have left is to exactly what point did that perfect foresight go? How much of all that is happening right now is still keikaku doori since Eren just knows everything - or does he really know even if he was privy to the linked memories? I think mechanically, that might be a bit of a fault in the story if all this is not just pre-determined, but that Eren is fully aware of it, so I'm assuming in some way Eren has hit that point where he's going in blind and letting the consequences reveal themselves as he goes.
- Joined
- May 14, 2018
- Messages
- 3,114
@Lithe I dont realy think that's the case, the conclussion Eren came to was based on years of memories going into him, but they dont know that.
At their eyes, Eren is like a tyrant who went full mad after realizing how powerfull he is, and even if there is logic in his plan, they dont know its predetermined to happen, nor they know the actual consequences... there's no one of us that would just accept something like that, if we had enough power to easily stop him. If they would just shut up and bear with it, the manga would become so much shallow, instead we have this gathering that its obviously not planned, and it cant realistically go well unless they come with a conclussion anyone else though of (or an asspull), but its still the most human chapter in the manga, and you call it convenient?
At their eyes, Eren is like a tyrant who went full mad after realizing how powerfull he is, and even if there is logic in his plan, they dont know its predetermined to happen, nor they know the actual consequences... there's no one of us that would just accept something like that, if we had enough power to easily stop him. If they would just shut up and bear with it, the manga would become so much shallow, instead we have this gathering that its obviously not planned, and it cant realistically go well unless they come with a conclussion anyone else though of (or an asspull), but its still the most human chapter in the manga, and you call it convenient?
Also, I love how the characters of this manga are, for the first time, acting all and each one of them like actual human beings, reasoning with the little they had and acting with the little sheerpower they have left after doing years of years of nonsensical battle and realizing how stupid their efforts really were, and you guys call it cringe.
"Hange cant stand genocide after seeing hundreds of soldiers and civilians die in fron of her omg its so criiiiiiiiiiiinge" go read Tokyo Ghoul if you want to see actual dumbasses who think genocide is good.
"Hange cant stand genocide after seeing hundreds of soldiers and civilians die in fron of her omg its so criiiiiiiiiiiinge" go read Tokyo Ghoul if you want to see actual dumbasses who think genocide is good.
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2018
- Messages
- 2,822
@LazloFF I wasn't considering them, I was considering the only currently known character with seemingly perfect future knowledge - that no matter what he did, he could not avoid what he saw. If that's the case, really he has probably already submitted to the pre-determined future, at least it seems so since he apparently tried to change a few things here and there in those flashbacks yet looked disappointed when he failed (though I'm only going off of other commenter's observations). In any case, there isn't a 'conclusion that Eren came to' in so much as it is the ONLY possible outcome assuming all things pre-determined.
And this is why it is convenient. It's a strange perspective that naturally exists if ANY character has absolute knowledge of the future. It's almost like spoilers, though not really. In my opinion, it feels a bit cheap, like this whole thing may as well have been a flashback, though it is certainly disguised very well.
Also why I had to, for a bit more of my own enjoyment, assume that Eren doesn't have that absolute knowledge. If it's only a small blip of time, then you've basically got "That's So Raven" happening lol. But depending on how far Eren has seen into this war, he may already know the genocide never took place/already succeeded etc.
To sum up, I only addressed the themes very briefly, but was more focused on the mechanical aspect of the storytelling itself. You seem to be properly immersed, however, so we're not really talking about the same thing.
And this is why it is convenient. It's a strange perspective that naturally exists if ANY character has absolute knowledge of the future. It's almost like spoilers, though not really. In my opinion, it feels a bit cheap, like this whole thing may as well have been a flashback, though it is certainly disguised very well.
Also why I had to, for a bit more of my own enjoyment, assume that Eren doesn't have that absolute knowledge. If it's only a small blip of time, then you've basically got "That's So Raven" happening lol. But depending on how far Eren has seen into this war, he may already know the genocide never took place/already succeeded etc.
To sum up, I only addressed the themes very briefly, but was more focused on the mechanical aspect of the storytelling itself. You seem to be properly immersed, however, so we're not really talking about the same thing.
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2019
- Messages
- 102
@RC1138Boss
It's absolutely rational, as it totally destroys any (potential) enemy for good.
It's absolutely rational, as it totally destroys any (potential) enemy for good.
