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- Thread starter MangaDex
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@ninjadork Agreed, no matter the setting humanity will always create a power structure, and that's fine, rejecting who we are as a species is foolish.
@jmikeg Angry peasants blaming people for stuff is not a reliable show of guilt. It only shows that something terrible has likely happened. Once again the father would take the blame regardless of personal wrongdoing's. Its kinda part of the whole nobility thing. If shit goes down you are to blame. You get your head taken for not being better even if you were outside of that without blame. You could have fought for those people yourself and still lose your head when things go south.
The context of this whole thing is basically motivation. A child watching his father die means different things depending on the reason. If his father was directly at fault it changes things greatly compared to dying as a scapegoat for the peoples rage. The motivation stands regardless of course but one is a lot less twisted. Your worldview would have to be pretty broken to not understand justified rage. It is however likely that it is given your upbringing likely having great bias some way or another. The classic "good guy thinks slavery is normal" scenario.
Regardless though a child would likely blame someone else. Knowing the father was a monster means little in comparison to that connection. We can assume they had a good relationship though. If they didn't he would be thinking slightly different things. People saying things like "its just a lesser Doflamingo" are judging it a little incorrectly in my book. Doflamingo was a hard driven point with very little nuance. Not bad but hardly better when we lack the context for this backstory. His was something designed to be purely justifiable to people. This could still be exactly that but it could also be something else.
The context of this whole thing is basically motivation. A child watching his father die means different things depending on the reason. If his father was directly at fault it changes things greatly compared to dying as a scapegoat for the peoples rage. The motivation stands regardless of course but one is a lot less twisted. Your worldview would have to be pretty broken to not understand justified rage. It is however likely that it is given your upbringing likely having great bias some way or another. The classic "good guy thinks slavery is normal" scenario.
Regardless though a child would likely blame someone else. Knowing the father was a monster means little in comparison to that connection. We can assume they had a good relationship though. If they didn't he would be thinking slightly different things. People saying things like "its just a lesser Doflamingo" are judging it a little incorrectly in my book. Doflamingo was a hard driven point with very little nuance. Not bad but hardly better when we lack the context for this backstory. His was something designed to be purely justifiable to people. This could still be exactly that but it could also be something else.
@gaigous not what I was referring to, but that's something worth discussing.
The Scapegoat Principle is a sociological mechanic which states thusly: "When attempting to solve a difficult and/or complicated problem, there is a strong tendency for the problem solvers in question to attack irrelevant targets of no interest instead of committing the necessary resources and effort to a functional solution."
Case in point #1: a bunch of peasant revolutionaries guillotining every noble they find regardless of guilt or crime, instead of consolidating their gains and starting a serious reform.
Case in point #2: a bunch of nobles kicking the shit out of peasants as a group instead of working in good faith with peasants who have useful skills and knowledge to offer.
Case in point #3: a young woman by the name of Romantica willing to become a sleazy noble's trophy concubine instead of making her independent way away from said nobles who dumped her in Beta.
Case in point #4: a swordsman by the name of Pram trying to use a weapon he has no real experience with instead of a weapon he has trained with extensively.
The Scapegoat Principle is a sociological mechanic which states thusly: "When attempting to solve a difficult and/or complicated problem, there is a strong tendency for the problem solvers in question to attack irrelevant targets of no interest instead of committing the necessary resources and effort to a functional solution."
Case in point #1: a bunch of peasant revolutionaries guillotining every noble they find regardless of guilt or crime, instead of consolidating their gains and starting a serious reform.
Case in point #2: a bunch of nobles kicking the shit out of peasants as a group instead of working in good faith with peasants who have useful skills and knowledge to offer.
Case in point #3: a young woman by the name of Romantica willing to become a sleazy noble's trophy concubine instead of making her independent way away from said nobles who dumped her in Beta.
Case in point #4: a swordsman by the name of Pram trying to use a weapon he has no real experience with instead of a weapon he has trained with extensively.
@gaigous Rather than rejecting inherent properties its more about rising above them. From my own experience this behavior is not nearly so ingrained that it warrants such a position. If anything it comes off as people being defeatist in their thinking. Often used to give up before attempting something. Like those who believe in determinism and claim no responsibility for their actions because of it. Its a way of denying personal responsibility for things.
Point is rather than hard genetic fact i would say its to do with upbringing. Broken people raising broken children to think a certain way creating a cycle which then is called "human nature" rather than looking for any possibility of other causes. Citing history only tells us that it was prevalent throughout. It does not actually say anything about why it was besides that the cause is a stable one. The idea that humanity could have made the same mistake for literally its entire time in existence is brushed aside. This obviously means you never even look for the truth of the matter.
Point is rather than hard genetic fact i would say its to do with upbringing. Broken people raising broken children to think a certain way creating a cycle which then is called "human nature" rather than looking for any possibility of other causes. Citing history only tells us that it was prevalent throughout. It does not actually say anything about why it was besides that the cause is a stable one. The idea that humanity could have made the same mistake for literally its entire time in existence is brushed aside. This obviously means you never even look for the truth of the matter.
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So... both sides have a reason to do this... but as taken in the philosophy... when humans don't have a common enemy they fight each other... that's what probably happening here... but these people are too dumb to understand what this shadow world is...
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@ninjadork I was agreeing with what you said and then adding my two cents to the conversations original topic, I didn't mean to start a discussion about that principle, sorry for the misunderstanding.
@Merilirem I'm not being defeatist, I meant that it's foolish to deny what we are if we want to progress/evolve as a species/society. We as individuals are the sum of our experiences, if you see us creating a power structure in every setting as a systemic issue and want to fix it, there are very few ways to do so (outside of a miracle) that don't involve Authoritarianism or Totalitarianism.
@Merilirem I'm not being defeatist, I meant that it's foolish to deny what we are if we want to progress/evolve as a species/society. We as individuals are the sum of our experiences, if you see us creating a power structure in every setting as a systemic issue and want to fix it, there are very few ways to do so (outside of a miracle) that don't involve Authoritarianism or Totalitarianism.
@gaigous No worries. Apologies for my misunderstanding of your misunderstanding 
As for the power structure, it seems to me that power structures are inherently neutral: I think power structures become a systemic problem when buck-passing becomes integrated into it. I can't think of any historically corrupt nation/group that wasn't rooted in some variation of "Oh wow, we really fucked this up; let's make that dude over there suffer all the consequences!".
As for the power structure, it seems to me that power structures are inherently neutral: I think power structures become a systemic problem when buck-passing becomes integrated into it. I can't think of any historically corrupt nation/group that wasn't rooted in some variation of "Oh wow, we really fucked this up; let's make that dude over there suffer all the consequences!".
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Well can't hate the dude for his hated towards commoners, can't hate the commoner's who hates nobles.
Clearly, difference in power is present, the only thing I can say is
this is BS.
and that you should all just laugh this off.
Clearly, difference in power is present, the only thing I can say is
this is BS.
and that you should all just laugh this off.
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@ninjadork Thanks for understanding my misunderstanding of your misunderstanding of my misunderstanding ???
Yeah, corruption is inevitable, that's why things like democracy and checks and balances were thought up in the first place.
Yeah, corruption is inevitable, that's why things like democracy and checks and balances were thought up in the first place.
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Oh, a potentially complex villain! I really hope they don't fuck this up.
@Ovdose Robespierre, I choose you!
Robespierre used Reign of Terror! It's super effective! French Revolution is confused.
French Revolution is confused! French Revolution used Guillotine! It's super effective! Robespierre is confused!
Robespierre is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
French Revolution is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
Robespierre is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
French Revolution is confused! French Revolution used Guillotine! It's super effective! Robespierre fainted!
Robespierre used Reign of Terror! It's super effective! French Revolution is confused.
French Revolution is confused! French Revolution used Guillotine! It's super effective! Robespierre is confused!
Robespierre is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
French Revolution is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
Robespierre is confused! It hurt itself in its confusion!
French Revolution is confused! French Revolution used Guillotine! It's super effective! Robespierre fainted!
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And that's why you kill the whole lineage when you have a revolution.
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He's been thru some shit but he still a psycho bitch
CoolOtamegane
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Shitty Nobles and Their Policies >> Overbutthurt Commoners >> Revolution >> Commoners Won >> Shitty Nobles Beheaded >> Son of Nobles Watched that >> Outraged >> Eternal Hatred
Because Humanity So shit, The gods led desctruction upon them throught The Shadow Labyrinth
Because Humanity So shit, The gods led desctruction upon them throught The Shadow Labyrinth
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This can be related to red haired dude’s master. His master knew such behaviours against the commoners caused the revolt and having nobles like him would cause such revolt again.
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